Joe Williams: Beyond the Blues (Stryker in Jazz Times)

[Mark Stryker]

Latest Chronology column:

https://jazztimes.com/features/columns/joe-williams-beyond-the-blues/

Edited January 15, 2023 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

Quite!

I would also like to throw in on A Man Ain't Supposed To Cry, which is as good or better a Sinatra record as all but 2-3 actual Sinatra records, and Williams' amazing performance on Cannonball's Big Man. 

[Mark Stryker]

14 hours ago, JSngry said:

Quite!

I would also like to throw in on A Man Ain't Supposed To Cry, which is as good or better a Sinatra record as all but 2-3 actual Sinatra records, and Williams' amazing performance on Cannonball's Big Man. 

Noted. Thanks. 

[medjuck]

I once saw him sing "Georgie Rose" .  (IIRC He was backed by the Clayton-Hamilton band. )  I I'd never heard the song before and it was wonderful.  Unfortunately I don't think he ever recorded it.  I do love the nightclub recording with Ben Webster. I've been planning to post about my many heretical opinions about jazz and one of them was going to be "Joe Williams sings ballads better than he sings the blues." 

[JSngry]

How about just that he was a master singer, period? 

[medjuck]

Well I don't think he's in the same class as Jimmy Rushing or Ray Charles but as a ballad singer he's up there with the best. 

[jazzbo]

I'm a heretic as well then Joe; I think his strongest suit is the singing of ballads. He's a master. I also love it when he duets with another amazing singer, such as his duets with Sarah Vaughan. He rises to the challenge.

[JSngry]

21 minutes ago, medjuck said:

Well I don't think he's in the same class as Jimmy Rushing or Ray Charles but as a ballad singer he's up there with the best. 

Jimmy Rushing and Ray Charles were totally different singers, so which "class" is this? 

[medjuck]

26 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Jimmy Rushing and Ray Charles were totally different singers, so which "class" is this? 

Blues singers.   

[JSngry]

Like Son House?

[Big Beat Steve]

12 hours ago, medjuck said:

I've been planning to post about my many heretical opinions about jazz and one of them was going to be "Joe Williams sings ballads better than he sings the blues." 

I've been under the impression that this evaluation of his work has been repeated more than once ? So it's not quite THAT heretic, it seems.
And there is a point to it, IMO.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

Joe Williams sang songs, period. 

[Big Beat Steve]

So did Paul Robeson. But does that say anthing about the achivements of someone "singing songs" in the field of blues singing?

(N.B. Joe Williams singing songs does not make him a songster, though - right? 😉)

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Big Beat Steve

[John L]

Joe Williams could ALSO sing great blues.  

[Big Beat Steve]

ALSO - yes. On a case by case basis. But I think what was hinted at here (and in reviews I read not terribly long ago but cannot pin down right now) was simply that overall, blues singing was not his real forte compared to his ballads. And of course it also depends on every listener's definition to what extent part of his recorded legacy will be considered either as "blues singing" or as "blues-tinged ballad singing".

[JSngry]

Joe Williams sang songs really well. ALL songs, including "blues songs".

To silo him off into "this" and "that" is a leftover of a marketing mindset. An enlightened 21st Century outlook calls for looking at music such as his wholistically, finding the real crafts and the real arts, the core of his singing. Then, if you just absolutely HAVE to market Joe Williams, market ALL of him as a single piece, because everything he sang was of a single piece.

Are we ready to go forward in our thoughts, or are we forevermore stuck in the record store filing system?

[hopkins]

https://www.discogs.com/fr/release/3500415-Dave-Pells-Prez-Conference-featuring-Joe-Williams-Prez-Joe-In-Celebration-Of-Lester-Young

This is a good one. 

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

https://www.discogs.com/fr/release/3500415-Dave-Pells-Prez-Conference-featuring-Joe-Williams-Prez-Joe-In-Celebration-Of-Lester-Young

This is a good one. 

Totally concur!