Mosaic JATP 1950s Box

[JSngry]

2 minutes ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

I think it is simpler than crafty pecuniary motives.  You have here researchers, discographers, explorers of tape vaults, managers of a record release.  And they are great at that.  They are not that good at the sales end.

That's even worse then, that they are being given the gift of a little extra float and not even realizing it.

Or is nobody there really doing the books? Are they just waiting on their bank statement to come in the mail every month? LOL.

Just now, jazzbo said:

An orgainzed customer action? Not going to happen.

So the customers are even less organized than the company?

I see your point, perhaps.

[Brad]

I received mine on Friday but only just had a chance to listen to the first disc. I don’t have most of this music so this is the first time I’m hearing it… and loving it.  The book stock is indeed made up of heavier stock and mine has no issues except the photo of Hank as Sonny. As @John Lsaid, great job. 

[Jim Duckworth]

2 hours ago, jazzbo said:

I do think it would be wise to just email them a query about a shipping date and nudge them to look for your order.

Hello.

I too preordered on the first day using Paypal and have heard nothing from Mosaic.  I followed your advice and hope this gets that box rolling my way.

thank you,

jd

[jlhoots]

19 minutes ago, Jim Duckworth said:

Hello.

I too preordered on the first day using Paypal and have heard nothing from Mosaic.  I followed your advice and hope this gets that box rolling my way.

thank you,

jd

Shouldn't be something you need to do, but I guess you do.

 

[scooter_phx]

Well...

I preordered the JATP box on 12/13 and used PayPal to purchase.  Guess I'm screwed until next year?  Wait... this IS next year.  What up wit dat?  C'mon Mosaic; you're better than this.

 

[John L]

If Mosaic can't even make us happy with their service, the are not going to get anywhere with the general public.  

[romualdo]

8 hours ago, jlhoots said:

Some screwy shipping stories here. 

don't get me started when it comes to Asendia & International shipping (Australia) - total cockup for my last two orders (Hubbard/Tristano most recently & earlier Black & White) - probably going to happen to the JATP order too

[Big Al]

I received the following in an email from Scott at Mosaic today:

 

We had an enormous run on this set and it looks like your order is part of a second batch which will be leaving in close to 2 weeks. We apologize for the delay and if I get more info for you I’ll let you know.

 

I don't know about you guys, but I love it that there was such a phenomenal demand for this set. Has this happened previously?

[Stompin at the Savoy]

You know, in most record labels the producer of a release would not be answering emails and seeing if records had been mailed to customers.  It's kind of awe-inspiring that they are able to pull this stuff off at all.  Seems to be a handful of staff performing all the jobs that a large record label does.

[RiRiIII]

Any news regarding JazzMessengers offering this set? Thank you.

[mikeweil]

5 hours ago, RiRiIII said:

Any news regarding JazzMessengers offering this set? Thank you.

They will, but always wait until they actually have some in stock before offering it on their website. Just have look every day or subscribe to their e-mail newsletter.

Edited January 24, 2023 by mikeweil

[sidewinder]

40 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

They will, but always wait until they actually have some in stock before offering it on their website. Just have look every or subscribe to their e-mail newsletter.

From my experience, their regular email does confirm new Mosaics in stock when they get them into their stores.

I’ve gone the ‘direct’ route with this set, after a number of orders from JM. Sadly, they don’t offer free shipping above a certain amount any more.

Edited January 24, 2023 by sidewinder

[mikeweil]

23 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

I’ve gone the ‘direct’ route with this set, after a number of orders from JM. Sadly, they don’t offer free shipping above a certain amount any more.

From JM's website:

"...... the current situation is forcing us to change some of our rules, specifically regarding our shipping terms and conditions. The truth is that shipping companies are applying constant price increases, which we were trying to sort through these past years, but we are getting to that point where we won’t be able to do this anymore.  
After studying all our possibilities, we are developing a new shipping system, as competitive as possible for us and our customers. This new system will determine shipping costs with the precise weight of the purchased items and is active since November 15th. 
You can all be sure that this has not been an easy decision for us; but, it’s a necessary one to be with you for more years to come. "

With shipping rates increasing everywhere, I guess this was unavoidable. 

[jazztrain]

The eagle has landed.  Arrived last evening. 

[Brad]

Mosaic just sent an email which says in part:

“We've received a number of e-mails regarding the orders and wanted to explain where we are at.

Mosaic Records utilizes an outside fulfillment house. They are a small business and are not staffed to ship all orders same day. All orders placed by Jan 11th are expected to ship this week but it is possible there is a spillover until next week. You will receive an e-mail with tracking # when shipped.

We had a strong response to the sale priced preorder. We sent a notice on Jan 12 that we had run thru our initial stock. We expect the reorder to arrive in about 2 weeks.

Also to clear up some confusion regarding credit card orders. There is a rule imposed by the credit card companies whereby the authorization for charging the card is only valid for 30 days. We should have charged early orders (Dec 15th and prior) at this point but screwed up and had to notify those to reorder. If ordered by PayPal there was no issue and any PayPal orders are now being processed.

Also please note that whether you ordered by PayPal or credit card this does not change when your order is shipped.”
 

 

[sidewinder]

Just got my shipping notice !

[Kevin Bresnahan]

My order got messed up too. I never did get an E-mail confirming that I ordered it in the first place so I confirmed my (first) order with Scott only to not get told that my credit card hold expired and I did not get my order in at all. So instead of getting one from the first batch, it looks like I'll be waiting for the next batch before I get my set.

Mosaic's ordering system is pretty screwed up.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

Some great bop playing by Hank Jones on the first disk.

The audience response is often somewhat different from what it would be nowadays. They get into a real frenzy whenever a horn plays a syncopated one-note ostinato figure.  Apparently this was deemed intensity?  They were also very fond of yelling out "Go!" Which often seems a distraction from the solo rather than encouragement.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Stompin at the Savoy

[Hardbopjazz]

I received my copy today. Time to listen. 

[jazzbo]

I never did receive a shipping notice or tracking number but mine arrived today at last. Right when my wife came home, so I've only glanced at the excellent booklet so far. Tomorrow I'll spin some.

[Big Beat Steve]

23 hours ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

The audience response is often somewhat different from what it would be nowadays. They get into a real frenzy whenever a horn plays a syncopated one-note ostinato figure.  Apparently this was deemed intensity?  They were also very fond of yelling out "Go!" Which often seems a distraction from the solo rather than encouragement.

Remember the period this music originated in. JAPT still catered to that part of the jazz audience that looked for extrovert entertainment and excitement (sometimes for better or in fact worse) and not (as yet) for wisely pondering, restrained head-nodding to the tones emitted by the MJQ 😉 and their likes. And remember that neither honking saxes on the R&B circuit nor rabble-rousing Gene Norman concerts were far removed in geography or chronology but still relatively recent. Even beyond early JATP concerts from the 40s, some JATP artists such as Flip Phillips thrived on this excitement. And audience reactions probably were even more intense during some European tours. Which did not always improve the "circus" reputations of the JATP tours in some circles. 😉

So I am not sure that "nowadays" would be a valid comparison at all.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

5 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Remember the period this music originated in. JAPT still catered to that part of the jazz audience that looked for extrovert entertainment and excitement (sometimes for better or in fact worse) and not (as yet) for wisely pondering, restrained head-nodding to the tones emitted by the MJQ 😉 and their likes. And remember that neither honking saxes on the R&B circuit nor rabble-rousing Gene Norman concerts were far removed in geography or chronology but still relatively recent. Even beyond early JATP concerts from the 40s, some JATP artists such as Flip Phillips thrived on this excitement. And audience reactions probably were even more intense during some European tours. Which did not always improve the "circus" reputations of the JATP tours in some circles. 😉

So I am not sure that "nowadays" would be a valid comparison at all.

I am actually not really sure what point you are making here. That the JATP crowds were rowdier than other venues?  But I've seen quite a bit of evidence that similar scenes occurred in other venues.  I was just being born then so I don't really remember musical venues or that sort of thing till later in the fifties.  I don't know if you have listened to this material recently *.  This audience of the early 50's is just a really far cry from a modern jazz audience, regardless of the venue.  And that is not so surprising - 70 years is a long time and cultural trends and fashions change all the time.

*Can't get the discography on Mosaic site to link directly but here is a sample:

(A) NORMAN GRANZ’ JAZZ AT THE PHILHARMONIC: Harry Edison (tp), Bill Harris (tb), Flip Phillips, Lester Young (ts), Hank Jones (p), Ray Brown (b), Buddy Rich (d).
Carnegie Hall, NYC, September 16, 1950
JC-1 Norgran Blues Norgran MG JC #1 – Side I
JC-1 Lady Be Good –
JC-1-Side-2 I Don’t Stand A Ghost
Of A Chance With You -1 Norgran MG JC #1 – Side II
JC-1-Side-2 Indiana –

-1 omit Phillips.

Note: The original tape log indicates that these were initially recorded on acetate discs with transfers onto tape dubbed on June 24, 1954. Norgran Blues made up sides 1 & 2; Lady Be Good on sides 3 & 4; I Don’t Stand A Ghost Of A Chance With You on sides 5 & 6; and Indiana on sides 7 & 8.
_____________________________________________________________
(B) THE COLEMAN HAWKINS SET: Coleman Hawkins (ts), Hank Jones (p), Ray Brown (b), Buddy Rich (d).
same concert as (A).
JC-1-Side-4 Yesterdays Norgran MG JC #1 – Side IV
JC-1-Side-4 Hawk’s Tune (Disorder At The Border) –
JC-1-Side-4 Stuffy –

Note: According to the Verve LP re-issue of this material, Bob Porter notes that three other titles might have been recorded but they no longer exist.
________________________________________________________________________
(C) THE BUDDY RICH TRIO: Hank Jones (p), Ray Brown (b), Buddy Rich (d).
same concert as (A).
JC-1-Side-4 Carnegie Blues (Air Mail Special) Norgran MG JC #1 – Side IV
________________________________________________________________________
(D) NORMAN GRANZ’ JAZZ AT THE PHILHARMONIC: Roy Eldridge, Charlie Shavers (tp), Benny Carter (as), Flip Phillips, Lester Young (ts), Oscar Peterson (p), Barney Kessel (el-g), Ray Brown (b), Buddy Rich (d).
Carnegie Hall, NYC, September 13, 1952
MGC 1064 1F Jam Session Blues Clef / Mer MG Vol. 15 – Pt. I
MGC 1065 1F The Trumpet Battle Clef / Mer MG Vol. 15 – Pt. II
MGC 1065 1F The Ballad Medley:
I Can’t Get Started (LY)
Summertime (CS)
Sweet Lorraine (FP)
It’s The Talk Of The Town (RE)
Cocktails For Two (BC) –
MGC 1066 1F Cotton Tail Clef / Mer MG Vol. 15 – Pt. III
____________________________________________

Edited January 26, 2023 by Stompin at the Savoy

[Brad]

3 hours ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

I am actually not really sure what point you are making here. That the JATP crowds were rowdier than other venues?  But I've seen quite a bit of evidence that similar scenes occurred in other venues.  I was just being born then so I don't really remember musical venues or that sort of thing till later in the fifties.  I don't know if you have listened to this material recently *.  This audience of the early 50's is just a really far cry from a modern jazz audience, regardless of the venue.  And that is not so surprising - 70 years is a long time and cultural trends and fashions change all the time.

*Can't get the discography on Mosaic site to link directly but here is a sample:

(A) NORMAN GRANZ’ JAZZ AT THE PHILHARMONIC: Harry Edison (tp), Bill Harris (tb), Flip Phillips, Lester Young (ts), Hank Jones (p), Ray Brown (b), Buddy Rich (d).
Carnegie Hall, NYC, September 16, 1950
JC-1 Norgran Blues Norgran MG JC #1 – Side I
JC-1 Lady Be Good –
JC-1-Side-2 I Don’t Stand A Ghost
Of A Chance With You -1 Norgran MG JC #1 – Side II
JC-1-Side-2 Indiana –

-1 omit Phillips.

Note: The original tape log indicates that these were initially recorded on acetate discs with transfers onto tape dubbed on June 24, 1954. Norgran Blues made up sides 1 & 2; Lady Be Good on sides 3 & 4; I Don’t Stand A Ghost Of A Chance With You on sides 5 & 6; and Indiana on sides 7 & 8.
_____________________________________________________________
(B) THE COLEMAN HAWKINS SET: Coleman Hawkins (ts), Hank Jones (p), Ray Brown (b), Buddy Rich (d).
same concert as (A).
JC-1-Side-4 Yesterdays Norgran MG JC #1 – Side IV
JC-1-Side-4 Hawk’s Tune (Disorder At The Border) –
JC-1-Side-4 Stuffy –

Note: According to the Verve LP re-issue of this material, Bob Porter notes that three other titles might have been recorded but they no longer exist.
________________________________________________________________________
(C) THE BUDDY RICH TRIO: Hank Jones (p), Ray Brown (b), Buddy Rich (d).
same concert as (A).
JC-1-Side-4 Carnegie Blues (Air Mail Special) Norgran MG JC #1 – Side IV
________________________________________________________________________
(D) NORMAN GRANZ’ JAZZ AT THE PHILHARMONIC: Roy Eldridge, Charlie Shavers (tp), Benny Carter (as), Flip Phillips, Lester Young (ts), Oscar Peterson (p), Barney Kessel (el-g), Ray Brown (b), Buddy Rich (d).
Carnegie Hall, NYC, September 13, 1952
MGC 1064 1F Jam Session Blues Clef / Mer MG Vol. 15 – Pt. I
MGC 1065 1F The Trumpet Battle Clef / Mer MG Vol. 15 – Pt. II
MGC 1065 1F The Ballad Medley:
I Can’t Get Started (LY)
Summertime (CS)
Sweet Lorraine (FP)
It’s The Talk Of The Town (RE)
Cocktails For Two (BC) –
MGC 1066 1F Cotton Tail Clef / Mer MG Vol. 15 – Pt. III
____________________________________________

I wasn’t sure of the point he was making either and I read the post three times.  I think anyone would have been moved by Jam Session Blues in (D). I certainly was. 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

Oh heck yeah, it's terrific stuff.

[Big Beat Steve]

8 hours ago, Brad said:

I wasn’t sure of the point he was making either and I read the post three times.  I think anyone would have been moved by Jam Session Blues in (D). I certainly was. 

It seems you all misunderstood my point - or else I've misunderstood Stompin's point.- Actually what I tried to point out was that JATP audiences of the late 40s or 50s were NOT all that rowdier than at other venues of similar package concerts in the 50s. Hence my reference to certain concerts leaning towards R&B and the Gene Norman Just Jazz concerts. Of course I have not listened to that actual box set but I have a lot of its contents on other reissues so am relatively familiar with a good deal of the material. I fact I listened to quite a bit of JATP recordings during recent weeks because I (at last) finished reading the Norman Granz biography around New Year.

Anyway ... wasn't it so that both the "antics" of some of the musicians building up excitement on stage in the "uptempo" segments of the concerts and the audience reaction were what caused the JATP tours to be labeled "circus" events by some observers? A bit unfairly IMHO. In short, given the context of the times with this kind of concerts, fairly exuberant audiences were not all that uncommon and just part of the setting and times. And comparisons with today's jazz audiences are beside the mark.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Big Beat Steve