Mosaic JATP 1950s Box

[mjzee]

I'm on the fence about this one.  The format (long blowing jams on uninteresting standards) bores me - I barely made it through the JATP '40's box.  All the usual suspects are here: Lady Be Good (2x), Indiana (2x), Idaho, Honeysuckle Rose, Tea For Two, Stomping' At The Savoy (3x).  Nat Hentoff famously said that jazz is the sound of surprise, and, boy, this ain't it.  Also, I already own the Getz/J.J. material, and an LP "JATP - The Coleman Hawkins Set" on Verve that may be duplicated here.

Reviewing my collection, I see that I own far more '50's JATP on Pablo than I do on Verve: Frankfurt 1952, Tokyo 1953, and Hartford 1953.

[JSngry]

3 hours ago, kh1958 said:

Yes, but with all the Lester Young, Ben Webster, Roy Eldridge, Benny Carter, Illinois Jacquet, Coleman Hawkins, and Dizzy Gillespie on the set, you will live.

I expect to live anyway, though. And I think I'd like to live it away from so much Oscar Peterson, even with his illustrious counterparts on board.

If I had not heard as much of those guys as I have, I might be hungry for more, regardless of accompaniment.

However, at this point, quality, not quantity.

I'll pass, thanks.

Oh, Whitney Balliett, not Nat Hentoff, iirc?

[tranemonk]

So I'm still confused by the discography. What if anything has previously been on CD? The Mosaic page implies almost none of it has been on CD before... but that doesn't seem right....

Album Index:

10” LP
Concert Blues is a “bonus” LP as part of the Clef MG Vol. 16 shown below.

12” LP
Clef MG Vol. 11 (2 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz at the Philharmonic # 11
Clef MG Vol. 15 (3 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz at the Philharmonic # 15
Clef MG Vol. 16 (4 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz at the Philharmonic # 16
Clef MG Vol. 17 (3 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz at the Philharmonic # 17
Norgran MG JC-1 (2 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz Concert # 1
Verve MG V-8231-2 (2 LP) Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl
Verve 825-101 Lester Young – Carnegie Blues
Verve MGVS 6026 (Stereo) Ella Fitzgerald At The Opera House
Verve MGV 8264 (Mono) Ella Fitzgerald At The Opera House
Verve MGVS 6027 (Stereo) Stan Getz and J.J. Johnson At The Opera House
Verve MGV 8265 (Mono) Stan Getz and J.J. Johnson At The Opera House
Verve MGVS 6028 (Stereo) Coleman Hawkins and Roy Eldridge At The Opera House
Verve MGV 8266 (Mono) Coleman Hawkins and Roy Eldridge At The Opera House
Verve MGV 8267 The JATP All Stars At The Opera House

 

[mjzee]

10 minutes ago, tranemonk said:

So I'm still confused by the discography. What if anything has previously been on CD? The Mosaic page implies almost none of it has been on CD before... but that doesn't seem right....

Album Index:

10” LP
Concert Blues is a “bonus” LP as part of the Clef MG Vol. 16 shown below.

12” LP
Clef MG Vol. 11 (2 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz at the Philharmonic # 11
Clef MG Vol. 15 (3 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz at the Philharmonic # 15
Clef MG Vol. 16 (4 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz at the Philharmonic # 16
Clef MG Vol. 17 (3 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz at the Philharmonic # 17
Norgran MG JC-1 (2 LP) Norman Granz’ Jazz Concert # 1
Verve MG V-8231-2 (2 LP) Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl
Verve 825-101 Lester Young – Carnegie Blues
Verve MGVS 6026 (Stereo) Ella Fitzgerald At The Opera House
Verve MGV 8264 (Mono) Ella Fitzgerald At The Opera House
Verve MGVS 6027 (Stereo) Stan Getz and J.J. Johnson At The Opera House
Verve MGV 8265 (Mono) Stan Getz and J.J. Johnson At The Opera House
Verve MGVS 6028 (Stereo) Coleman Hawkins and Roy Eldridge At The Opera House
Verve MGV 8266 (Mono) Coleman Hawkins and Roy Eldridge At The Opera House
Verve MGV 8267 The JATP All Stars At The Opera House

 

Seems like quite a few.  These are currently available from Amazon:

[mikeweil]

27 minutes ago, tranemonk said:

So I'm still confused by the discography. What if anything has previously been on CD? The Mosaic page implies almost none of it has been on CD before... but that doesn't seem right....

This note says it all:

"For the purposes of this discography, only the first release of each matrix is listed and shown as originally released on LP or CD."

As there are no CDs listed, they just didn't list them because they were no first releases.

[tranemonk]

2 hours ago, mikeweil said:

This note says it all:

"For the purposes of this discography, only the first release of each matrix is listed and shown as originally released on LP or CD."

As there are no CDs listed, they just didn't list them because they were no first releases.

I totally don't get it... I may be dense but I don't understand. Usually in their discographies they do us the favor of listing what sessions have been previously released on CD... That's one of the ways I evaluate whether I'm in or not.. I'm not buying sets which I already have on CD... It may be me, but I find this very confusing.

[mikeweil]

Of course it would be a great service for us, and I miss it, too, but it is a lot of work, and I'm afraid, a discographical mess. I mean, if they draw on Tom Lord's discography with all its inaccuracies besides the Clef and Verve discographies .....

Edited December 15, 2022 by mikeweil

[jlhoots]

It's a pass for me.

[tranemonk]

13 hours ago, jlhoots said:

It's a pass for me.

Why?

[jlhoots]

17 minutes ago, tranemonk said:

Why?

I have what I want from the list. Mostly missing the Clefs, not enough to make me buy the set.

[colinmce]

It's tempting but will likely pass as well, I think the JATP format stretches a little thin for me over the course of that many discs. I'd rather put my funds towards the Black & White set.

[greggery peccary]

I'm a pass on this as well. While I don't have a lot of this material, listening to the Mosaic samples, the between song applause sounds more pronounced and intrusive than I recall. Blowing and cutting sessions don't hold the same allure for me that they once did.

I personally like the Blue Note sets and I also hold out hope that Mosaic will do more things with other labels- something hinted at with this release as well as the inclusion of the Impulse sides on the Hubbard set? More adventurous fare like the Threadgill and Braxton would also suit my palette.

[tranemonk]

Wow... I thought that this would have generated more interest here but I guess a lot of have some or most of this? Even though I have almost no idea what's been previously available on CD....

[jazzbo]

All but a few tracks of this has been out on LP and cd before so that quells the interest of quite a few. I have probably more than half this but I pre-ordered--I like to have Mosaic sets, and I like the top-notch consistent mastering of material I have over several different releases  (Anti-Oscar sentiment seems to be in play as well).

All the Opera House material from Ella, Stan Getz, Hawkins and Roy Eldridge have been on cd. The Lester Young Carnegie Blues has been on cd. Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl has been on cd. I am uncertain how much of the remainder has been on cd.

Edited December 16, 2022 by jazzbo

[mikeweil]

5 hours ago, jazzbo said:

The Lester Young Carnegie Blues has been on cd. 

Does anybody have details?

[miles65]

33 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

Does anybody have details?

The 1946 version is on the 1940's set. And there is a Lester Young LP called Carnegie Blues. The version of Carnegie blues on this set is he Buddy Rich trio. No Lester.

[jazzbo]

I was referring to sessions (K) and (W) which were both on side B of the Verve LP "Carnegie Blues." I swear that was out on cd. . . but it seems that I may have been confusing a digital file version released about four years ago.

Edited December 17, 2022 by jazzbo

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I guess I'm weird but for me Oscar Peterson is a plus.  He can overdo it sometimes or even seem bombastic but every once in a while he'll play something and I'm left thinking holy crow that changes everything...

[mjzee]

Amazon is currently offering a CD of Carnegie Blues for $14.29, apparently made by Universal: https://www.amazon.com/Jazz-At-Philharmonic-Lester-Carnegie/dp/B07896LHHR/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2KRU91QORFP86&keywords=lester+young+carnegie+blues&qid=1671235795&sprefix=lester+young+carnegie+blues%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-1

[jazzbo]

3 minutes ago, mjzee said:

Amazon is currently offering a CD of Carnegie Blues for $14.29, apparently made by Universal: https://www.amazon.com/Jazz-At-Philharmonic-Lester-Carnegie/dp/B07896LHHR/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2KRU91QORFP86&keywords=lester+young+carnegie+blues&qid=1671235795&sprefix=lester+young+carnegie+blues%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-1

OK, thanks. I rest easier. . . I swore it was out there. . . but I couldn't find it on amazon just now. 

[mjzee]

But the listing could be in error; it might actually be an LP.

[jazzbo]

5 minutes ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

I guess I'm weird but for me Oscar Peterson is a plus.  He can overdo it sometimes or even seem bombastic but every once in a while he'll play something and I'm left thinking holy crow that changes everything...

Yes, and at that time he was able to sit down and accompany anyone Granz put oh stage with him, which is quite a feat, and why he was there.

[mjzee]

I see no CDs offered on Ebay, and an Amazon reviewer from Spain wrote:

Tomás Segura Salvador

1.0 out of 5 stars Es un LP y no un CD

Reviewed in Spain on February 11, 2022

Verified Purchase

No me ha gustado el formato.

[jazzbo]

1 minute ago, mjzee said:

But the listing could be in error; it might actually be an LP.

No, I think it's a cd. 

[Brad]

I have almost next to nothing of this JATP period so I’m looking forward to it. It’s not the kind of set I’d sit down and listen to straight through. I rarely do that with Mosaics anyway.