F/S Frank Zappa and Mothers ‘71 Box Set

[greggery peccary]

Mint condition. Only the first disc was played. The liner notes were read once. Everything is excellent/mint condition. 
I have a significant library of Zappa titles. The single album is not one of my favorites. I wondered if this set would change my mind. Listening to disc one I quickly realized the single CD will suffice. 
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 
Asking $60 plus actual media mail cost. 
PayPal family or personal check for payment please. 
Thank you. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by greggery peccary
grammar

[Ken Dryden]

As Frank Zappa told me in a 1989 interview, “It wasn’t really a great band, but we had a lot of laughs.”

[felser]

41 minutes ago, Ken Dryden said:

As Frank Zappa told me in a 1989 interview, “It wasn’t really a great band, but we had a lot of laughs.”

They didn't really try.  The next year's 'The Grand Wazoo' showed what he was capable of.  The 1971 band planted the seeds of the crassness and willful stoopidness which plagued him over most of the rest of his career.  His 60's vocal satire was brilliant.  The 70's-80's vocal stuff seemed to be one middle finger pointed at the censors, and the other middle finger pointed at the audience.  I'm sure this set has occasional great music, and I find it tempting on that basis, but I don't need or want almost 3 hours of 'Billy the Mountain'.

[AllenLowe]

1 hour ago, Ken Dryden said:

As Frank Zappa told me in a 1989 interview, “It wasn’t really a great band, but we had a lot of laughs.”

Frank was wrong, in my opinion, which is why none of his later bands were as great as the first - I was lucky enough to catch them in 1968, and they were rough, tight, edgy, spirited, and just a hell of a lot of fun. Not that the later ones were bad, but they had a slickness which gave them less feeling.

[felser]

24 minutes ago, AllenLowe said:

Frank was wrong, in my opinion, which is why none of his later bands were as great as the first - I was lucky enough to catch them in 1968, and they were rough, tight, edgy, spirited, and just a hell of a lot of fun. Not that the later ones were bad, but they had a slickness which gave them less feeling.

I think the quote is referring to the 1971 Flo & Eddie band, not the amazing original group.

[JSngry]

I'd not want to hear 3 hours of "Billy The Mountain" either, but...the released version is pretty much  a masterpiece, imo. Musical comedy/theatre perfectly conceived and executed. A most wonderful combination of all the ingredients, a balance that was too often not there in Zappa. 

[Jim Duckworth]

There is some really excellent Don Preston on the versions of King Kong but still...

[felser]

8 minutes ago, Jim Duckworth said:

There is some really excellent Don Preston on the versions of King Kong but still...

That's the primary appeal of this box for me.

[AllenLowe]

2 hours ago, felser said:

I think the quote is referring to the 1971 Flo & Eddie band, not the amazing original group.

well, maybe - because I know that he did jettison that original band because he thought they weren't really up to playing his compositions as well as some others -

[Д.Д.]

4 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

As Frank Zappa told me in a 1989 interview, “It [Flo & Eddie band] wasn’t really a great band, but we had a lot of laughs.”

Well, Flo & Eddy could definitely sing, and Aynsley Dunbar was the swingiest drummer Zappa ever had, IMHO.  

[felser]

50 minutes ago, AllenLowe said:

well, maybe - because I know that he did jettison that original band because he thought they weren't really up to playing his compositions as well as some others -

I agree with you in principle.  Nothing he did matches the first few albums with the original group, despite the superior technical ability of the subsequent musicians.  An old Robert Christgau quote about Ray Davies (Kinks), but applies as much to Zappa's post-60's work:  "Overview: the knack remains and the craft may actually have increased, but the gift has flown."

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

I'd not want to hear 3 hours of "Billy The Mountain" either, but...the released version is pretty much  a masterpiece, imo. Musical comedy/theatre perfectly conceived and executed. A most wonderful combination of all the ingredients, a balance that was too often not there in Zappa. 

Agreed it's good for a giggle, but to me, something like "Help I'm a Rock" or the "We're Only In It For The Money" album is the perfection of that genre, the latter right down to the Sgt. Pepper-esque album cover.

[JSngry]

22 minutes ago, felser said:

Agreed it's good for a giggle, but to me, something like "Help I'm a Rock" or the "We're Only In It For The Money" album is the perfection of that genre, the latter right down to the Sgt. Pepper-esque album cover.

"Help I'm A Rock" was essentially a jam, and WOIIFTM was an album of songs with some nice inter-track additions. 

"Billy The Mountain" as presented was a full length production number, one continuous piece with a linear narrative and unified thematic elements from start to finish. Nothing else quite like it, really. 200 Motels, maybe, but not really. 

I have some bootleg that presents a version of Billy that is a condensed version, perhaps more than half the original length, and it just doesn't work. It's too glib, doesn't breathe, not enough time for things to really develop, simmer, whatever.

At the level of completeness that it got, it's good for more than jsut a giggle for me. It's got completeness. In long-form "rock", that's quite a rarity.

[Д.Д.]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

 

"Billy The Mountain" as presented was a full length production number, one continuous piece with a linear narrative and unified thematic elements from start to finish. Nothing else quite like it, really. 200 Motels, maybe, but not really. 

I have some bootleg that presents a version of Billy that is a condensed version, perhaps more than half the original length, and it just doesn't work. It's too glib, doesn't breathe, not enough time for things to really develop, simmer, whatever.

At the level of completeness that it got, it's good for more than jsut a giggle for me. It's got completeness. In long-form "rock", that's quite a rarity.

How about this one then? 

 

[JSngry]

I get that some people like this, but for me it's too...."Post-___". I'm one of those for whom Zappa lost a lot, a LOT, of luster post 1971-ish, and it never really got restored (in spite of the obvious skills). Too me, it seemed that a healthy cynicism began pivoting into outright misanthropy and never really pivoted back. 

I do, though, really like the very last orchestral thing he did just before his death.

[mjzee]

If you liked the original Fillmore East May 1971 album, I'd advise someone to grab this box at a good price.  I found it amazing to hear how tight and inventive was the band.  Aynsley Dunbar was a great drummer, I love Flo & Eddie (I know opinions differ, which is why I started this comment with "If you liked..."), I was blown away by the compositions, and the band is tight as all getout.  I agree, 4 versions of Billy The Mountain is way too much (I never even liked it the first time, on Just Another Band From L.A.), so just skip over them.  The booklet is fabulous (don't miss the interview with Ian Underwood), and, above all else, don't miss the Rainbow concert.  It's astonishing to hear them, after the fire at Montreux, appear with rented instruments and be as great as they were.  The verite moment at the end is what it is; I felt like a voyeur listening to it once, although it is fascinating and dramatic, and I probably will never listen to it again.

[bertrand]

8 hours ago, mjzee said:

If you liked the original Fillmore East May 1971 album, I'd advise someone to grab this box at a good price.  I found it amazing to hear how tight and inventive was the band.  Aynsley Dunbar was a great drummer, I love Flo & Eddie (I know opinions differ, which is why I started this comment with "If you liked..."), I was blown away by the compositions, and the band is tight as all getout.  I agree, 4 versions of Billy The Mountain is way too much (I never even liked it the first time, on Just Another Band From L.A.), so just skip over them.  The booklet is fabulous (don't miss the interview with Ian Underwood), and, above all else, don't miss the Rainbow concert.  It's astonishing to hear them, after the fire at Montreux, appear with rented instruments and be as great as they were.  The verite moment at the end is what it is; I felt like a voyeur listening to it once, although it is fascinating and dramatic, and I probably will never listen to it again.

You mean you get to hear him pushed off the stage? 

[Д.Д.]

1 hour ago, bertrand said:

You mean you get to hear him pushed off the stage? 

Yes:

 

[sgcim]

On 12/4/2022 at 4:39 PM, greggery peccary said:

Mint condition. Only the first disc was played. The liner notes were read once. Everything is excellent/mint condition. 
I have a significant library of Zappa titled. The single album is not one of my favorites. Listening to disc one I quickly realized the single CD will suffice. 
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 
Asking $60 plus actual media mail cost. 
PayPal family or personal check for payment please. 
Thank you. 

I'm only interested in the stuff from 1971 that has Bob Harris(1) playing the long keyboard solo on Billy The Mountain. I bought "Playground Psychotics" for it, and it smoked. Harris subbed for Preston on the first part of the tour, but then Preston came back sometime in the late Summer. I don't know if you want to go to the trouble of checking that out for me (because it may be just a small portion of the collection that I'd be interested in buying- I'm not interested in any post-Harris material), but if you're interested in selling just that part to me, I'd have to know how many discs have Harris playing that solo.

[GregK]

On 12/5/2022 at 5:52 PM, mjzee said:

If you liked the original Fillmore East May 1971 album, I'd advise someone to grab this box at a good price.  I found it amazing to hear how tight and inventive was the band.  Aynsley Dunbar was a great drummer, I love Flo & Eddie (I know opinions differ, which is why I started this comment with "If you liked..."), I was blown away by the compositions, and the band is tight as all getout.  I agree, 4 versions of Billy The Mountain is way too much (I never even liked it the first time, on Just Another Band From L.A.), so just skip over them.  The booklet is fabulous (don't miss the interview with Ian Underwood), and, above all else, don't miss the Rainbow concert.  It's astonishing to hear them, after the fire at Montreux, appear with rented instruments and be as great as they were.  The verite moment at the end is what it is; I felt like a voyeur listening to it once, although it is fascinating and dramatic, and I probably will never listen to it again.

I was really surprised at how good this set is, when coming to it from the perspective of the Fillmore East album. The multiple Billy The Mountains, Wille The Pimp and King Kongs have so much excellent music that makes this set the definitive version of this band, for me (and I really am not a fan at all of Flo & Eddie). 

[Д.Д.]

I think this is an enjoyable release overall. Dunbar (drums) and Preston (keyboards) are fascinating to listen to. Jim Pons is not a great bassist but has a nice baritone voice that provides a pleasant counterpoint to Flo & Eddie's screeching tenors. Zappa is the only guitar player and I love his rhythm guitar work (something you won't hear much post-1975). His solos - while not his best ever - are consistently interesting. And well, I quite like Flo & Eddie. I could do without comedy routine stuff, but when they sing - they do sing. I wish they included the infamous ("smoke-on-the-water") Montreux gig, but well, you get 10 hours of music already. The sound quality is excellent.          

Edited December 8, 2022 by Д.Д.

[greggery peccary]

Bump. Price drop to $50 plus MM cost to lower 48.

 

[felser]

18 minutes ago, greggery peccary said:

Bump. Price drop to $50 plus MM cost to lower 48.

 

PM sent.

[greggery peccary]

Sold.