2022-23 MLB Hot Stove Thread

[JSngry]

So did that Houston Mega-Gambler get the Series thrown?

Etc.

[Dan Gould]

Interesting "Contemporary Players Ballot" for HoF as Bonds and Clemens and Palmeiro (and some other darn good players) get their chance.

https://www.mlb.com/news/2023-contemporary-baseball-era-hall-of-fame-ballot?partnerId=zh-20221108-750166-mlb-1-A&qid=1026&utm_id=zh-20221108-750166-mlb-1-A&bt_ee=vglAru4VEvzICRuB388HKvE%2FG%2F5RIfRojzuLf0R4DXHBVfbuarCP85D0CzAVfhez&bt_ts=1667916333021

[JSngry]

I like Fred McGriff & Albert Belle. No taint of PEDs, and consistently excellent players.

And Curt Schilling...controversial, but a helluva pitcher.

[Brad]

I find it hard to believe that Palmeiro, etc. are on this ballot. 

[JSngry]

Raffi was a solid player. Loved him when he was here. But...if PEDs are ok, then they shouldn't be banned. And they are banned, although one has to wonder about the alleged workarounds you keep hearing whispers about.

As for the rest of Team Roiders...sorry guys, you choice, your consequence. The tragedy is, who among them really needed that to stand out anyway?

[Dan Gould]

40 minutes ago, Brad said:

I find it hard to believe that Palmeiro, etc. are on this ballot. 

Why, when they went thru on the writer's ballot per the rules in effect at the time? (I want to say that Palmiero fell off at some point for not maintaining the minimum % required?)

Or are you suggesting that there should be a gap between eligibility on the writers and then on the overlooked ballots? 

 

If we were dropping PED users and replacing them, then I'd put Dewey Evans back on the list. He was great by modern measurements way before it was cool to take walks and hit a lot of homers and doubles - 127 career OPS+ -  and one of the all-time RF defenders, too.

[JSngry]

Yeah, Evans was excellent.

[Matthew]

I'd take Evens too, vastly underrated. Belle is tainted by being a jerk, but he wouldn't be the first one in the HofF.

[soulpope]

Mirroring a season for ages .... mission accomplished ....

[Brad]

20 hours ago, soulpope said:

Mirroring a season for ages .... mission accomplished ....

Color that Dodger Blue. 

[soulpope]

6 minutes ago, Brad said:

Color that Dodger Blue. 

I believe the Yankees simply can`t afford letting him go .... and this "luxury tax" should be no obstacle for thees wealthy owners (and the money will flow back in quickly with Judge-releated merchandise anyway) .... but let`s see ....

[Brad]

1 minute ago, soulpope said:

I believe the Yankees simply can`t afford letting him go .... and this "luxury tax" should be no obstacle for thees wealthy owners (and the money will flow back in quickly with Judge-releated merchandise anyway) .... but let`s see ....

Nowadays you just don’t know. The Dodgers just cleared a whole bunch of money by non-tendering Bellinger and the Giants say they won’t be outbid by anyone. The Yankees without Judge might finish last in the division. 

[soulpope]

1 minute ago, Brad said:

Nowadays you just don’t know. The Dodgers just cleared a whole bunch of money by non-tendering Bellinger and the Giants say they won’t be outbid by anyone. The Yankees without Judge might finish last in the division. 

I loved Aaron Judge since his rookie season .... and he was actually the main reason for me following the Yankess these past years .... having said that, but in the unlikely situation losing him the Yankess will have the chance to re-build - and this is the stuff sometimes cinderella stories are made of ....

[Dan Gould]

I will stick with my "Yankees will open the vault and do whatever it takes" prediction, which I think I monetized as 500 million dollars over whatever length of contract. 

[Dan Gould]

MLB.com Breakdown of new HOF candidates

This group is pretty darn weak. Beltran is obvious and it would be a shame if he's left off any significant number of ballots due to the Astros cheating scandal in his final season.

Beyond him though ... K-Rod is it and I don't know if I'd be sold on him. Seems I recall quite a few blown saves when they really mattered?

I'd rank Lackey third in this group and honestly, not even in the "Good but not great" Hall, more like the pretty good HoF.

What do y'all think? I don't think anybody else deserves 30% of the votes and a lot should go bye-bye right away.

[Brad]

Beltran won’t be voted in (at least for awhile) because of the scandal.  He was the instigator and was the so-called godfather of it. That he just didn’t go along with it but was a principal participant may kill his chances. 

[felser]

On 11/8/2022 at 9:55 PM, Matthew said:

I'd take Evens too, vastly underrated. Belle is tainted by being a jerk, but he wouldn't be the first one in the HofF.

They've had jerks since the initial induction.  And the biggest HOF crime is the ignoring of Sweet Lou Whitaker, though I also agree Evans is more than worthy (certainly much more so than Jim Rice and Harold Baines, for instance).   So much ignorance about baseball.  1961 Yankees, despite all of the home run heroics, barely averaged 5 runs per game because they batted Bobby Richardson (.295 OBP, .610 OPS) and Tony Kubek (.306 OBP) at the top of the order.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by felser

[Dan Gould]

28 minutes ago, Brad said:

Beltran won’t be voted in (at least for awhile) because of the scandal.  He was the instigator and was the so-called godfather of it. That he just didn’t go along with it but was a principal participant may kill his chances. 

Apparently I missed this part of the reporting on the cheating system.  Was he on the hook for a long suspension had he not retired? I just don't recall these things at all, I mostly remember what was done to the manager and bench coach who was the, uh, manager of the Red Sox when it all came out.

Anyway I still think Beltran is an overwhelming case for the HoF - how long he should wait will be up to the writers. Now I am curious to see how far he has to go after this ballot.

I am guessing we've got Rolen getting elected from the prior ballots and ... whoever comes out of that group of recent stars (and I am dying to find out what support Bonds and Clemens get from the small group of electors).

28 minutes ago, felser said:

 I also agree Evans is more than worthy (certainly much more so than Jim Rice and Harold Baines, for instance). 

 

Baines presence is the bottom of the current barrel and makes Rice in on the last year of his candidacy look like a no-brainer (I loved Rice as a kid but understood the arguments against).  Baines never put the fear of God into pitchers and managers the way Rice did. Baines is purely LaRussa's fault and a travesty.

[Aggie87]

4 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Apparently I missed this part of the reporting on the cheating system.  Was he on the hook for a long suspension had he not retired? I just don't recall these things at all, I mostly remember what was done to the manager and bench coach who was the, uh, manager of the Red Sox when it all came out.

He wasn't on the hook because he retired immediately after the Astros won the WS in 2017. The scandal didn't break until 2019, so he was long retired by then.  But he was the main instigator of the trash-can banging and was the only Astros player named in the Commissioner's report. 

In Nov '19 he was hired to be the Mets' manager, but 2 months later he and the Mets "parted ways" because of his role in the cheating scandal.

 

[Dan Gould]

3 minutes ago, Aggie87 said:

He wasn't on the hook because he retired immediately after the Astros won the WS in 2017. The scandal didn't break until 2019, so he was long retired by then.  But he was the main instigator of the trash-can banging and was the only Astros player named in the Commissioner's report. 

In Nov '19 he was hired to be the Mets' manager, but 2 months later he and the Mets "parted ways" because of his role in the cheating scandal.

 

Suddenly I'm starting to remember that -especially the Mets connection. 🤯

So folks, what is the over/under? 40%?

[Mark Stryker]

Stat of the day from Tyler Kepner of the New York Times: When retired San Francisco Giants pitcher Matt Cain was 5 years old, he turned three unassisted triple plays in T-ball. I should point out that this won’t help him get into the Hall of Fame — he’s on the ballot for the first time this year — but it should be considered.

[JSngry]

34 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:

Stat of the day from Tyler Kepner of the New York Times: When retired San Francisco Giants pitcher Matt Cain was 5 years old, he turned three unassisted triple plays in T-ball. 

In one inning? WOW!!!! 

[Brad]

7 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Apparently I missed this part of the reporting on the cheating system.  Was he on the hook for a long suspension had he not retired? I just don't recall these things at all, I mostly remember what was done to the manager and bench coach who was the, uh, manager of the Red Sox when it all came out.

Anyway I still think Beltran is an overwhelming case for the HoF - how long he should wait will be up to the writers. Now I am curious to see how far he has to go after this ballot.

I vaguely remember he was the ringleader and after I saw your post I looked up more info about his role. From what I read some of the younger players wanted to stop but he pushed for them to continue.

It’s hard to say how the writers will react in the long term. Maybe the positives of his playing career will outweigh this one bad incident. I have to believe that the writers will be somewhat influenced by what players and fans think. 

[ghost of miles]

On 11/22/2022 at 5:49 PM, JSngry said:

In one inning? WOW!!!! 

I dig the one that Johnny Hodges turned in 1967!

[JSngry]

That was one outing!!!