Dizzy Reece Select

[sjarrell]

Got it today. It's a very good thing. So who got the first 407 of 'em?

[jacknife]

I'm looking foward to picking this set up. How's the sound quality?

[doubleM]

Good Question. I'm still pondering unloading my BN TOCJ's/Jrvg's, if it gets good sound reports.

[mgraham333]

Got it today. It's a very good thing. So who got the first 407 of 'em?

Mine is #104 and is sounding great. First exposure to the music so nothing to compare it to. I only had the chance to make it through the first two discs at work, but I like what I hear so far.

[sjarrell]

I'm looking foward to picking this set up. How's the sound quality?

It sounds terrific to me- it's a McMaster job, but he doesn't upset me like he does most other folks. But I've got pretty bad ears, too- big chunk of upper midrange is next to gone.

So why does everyone have it in for poor Mr. McMaster? And if he's as tin eared as all the kids are saying, why does Cuscuna keep him on?

[wesbed]

So why does everyone have it in for poor Mr. McMaster?  And if he's as tin eared as all the kids are saying, why does Cuscuna keep him on?

I've not yet heard the Reece Select so I don't know how this remastering job sounds. However, I do like McMaster's work. I used to not like him because I relied on the opinions of so many other McMaster detractors on various jazz boards. I don't mean the work that McMaster did on the 1980s Blue Note releases, rather, the work he's done recently, for Blue Note and Mosaic. For me, knowing that McMaster did the remaster on a given title, is a positive sign.

To my ears, McMaster seems to leave the original sound 'true.' Sometimes I hear slight distortions/buzzing in McMaster's work. As if he chose to leave the 'old' sound there, not touch it, to avoid altering the original recording. His style leaves the original recording sounding crisp and natural.

I like RVGs (and wouldn't give any of mine back!), but certain titles do sound a little 'electric' and over-powered. I'm not sure what other words to use to describe.

Malcolm Addey continues to amaze. I have no complaints about anything Addey gets involved with. His work is clean, crisp, natural, modern, yet still lets the 'old' sound shine through on its own.

I enjoy and appreciate the history of RVG and jazz. I like knowing that Van Gelder is involved with the remastering of his original recordings. However, I wouldn't mind if Blue Note and Mosaic replaced RVG and McMaster's names with Addey's name for future releases. Maybe start a Malcolm Addey series?

Edited March 27, 2004 by wesbed

[Brad]

sjarrell raises a really good point. If the guy sucked so bad, do you think Michael would continue to use him. I don't think so. Others may do this but I don't look to see who remastered it before I buy. I buy when I see a new unavailable session comes out. That should be the test for purchasing.

[Morganized]

So why does everyone have it in for poor Mr. McMaster?  And if he's as tin eared as all the kids are saying, why does Cuscuna keep him on?

I've not yet heard the Reece Select so I don't know how this remastering job sounds. However, I do like McMaster's work. I used to not like him because I relied on the opinions of so many other McMaster detractors on various jazz boards. I don't mean the work that McMaster did on the 1980s Blue Note releases, rather, the work he's done recently, for Blue Note and Mosaic. For me, knowing that McMaster did the remaster on a given title, is a positive sign.

To my ears, McMaster seems to leave the original sound 'true.' Sometimes I hear slight distortions/buzzing in McMaster's work. As if he chose to leave the 'old' sound there, not touch it, to avoid altering the original recording. His style leaves the original recording sounding crisp and natural.

I like RVGs (and wouldn't give any of mine back!), but certain titles do sound a little 'electric' and over-powered. I'm not sure what other words to use to describe.

Malcolm Addey continues to amaze. I have no complaints about anything Addey gets involved with. His work is clean, crisp, natural, modern, yet still lets the 'old' sound shine through on its own.

I enjoy and appreciate the history of RVG and jazz. I like knowing that Van Gelder is involved with the remastering of his original recordings. However, I wouldn't mind if Blue Note and Mosaic replaced RVG and McMaster's names with Addey's name for future releases. Maybe start a Malcolm Addey series?

wesbed,

This is an excellent post IMHO. I think you have nailed it. I try to keep an open mind on the RVG vs. McMaster debate.(see my post Reissue: RVG March 9 release) Still, there are some RVG's that sound better to me and some that don't.

Recently I have A/B'd the recent releases of Cape Verdean... and Right Now. To my ears the Silver, Cape Verdean is an improvement while I prefer the orignal McMaster of McLean's Right Now. Just my opinion, but I agree with your particular comment:

I like RVGs (and wouldn't give any of mine back!), but certain titles do sound a little 'electric' and over-powered. I'm not sure what other words to use to describe.

That is absolutely true in my book. Sometimes the RVG seems a little "bright". If the goal of reproduction is to approach a live sound then it doesn't work. That is my central complaint, but like you, I don't have many and I am not going to give my RVG's back!!

Anyway, enjoyed the post. Think it was right on.

Edited March 28, 2004 by Morganized

[wesbed]

The McMaster/RVG debate has raged for months/years. I enjoy intelligent discussion & opinions regarding the efforts of both. It's interesting and educational to learn of the nuances of each. I appreciate having the various Blue Note titles available in a remastered format. I feel guilty to say that any of the re-releases are 'bad.' I look forward to each and every one and plan to keep all the titles I’ve acquired.

I do notice who remastered which title, before and after I purchase said title. The remasterer is part of 'the package,' an inherent part of the release. The remastering engineer leaves his fingerprint all over the recording. Not to say that one remasterer is better than another, but each has his own way of doing things, and it gives the listener something to expect or feel familiar with before deciding to make the music purchase. Van Gelder and McMaster have provided me with hours of reading, writing, and listening pleasure due to the differences and similarities with their work.

I'd not avoid making the purchase of a given re-release due to the remastering engineer listed. However, I was pushed over the edge to purchase the New Orleans Jazz Mosaic due to Malcolm Addey's name being a part of 'the package.' I asked myself, knowing that Mosaic AND Addey were both involved, how bad could the set be? I was not disappointed.

Morganized: Thanks for the positive feedback regarding my McMaster comments earlier in this thread. I try to keep an open mind, too, and not be juvenile or ignorant (as much as I can) regarding the McMaster versus RVG discussion.

I feel somewhat conscience-stricken to 'steal' this Dizzy Reece Select thread to turn into yet another McMaster/RVG debate. While I do enjoy writing about and reading other's posts regarding McMaster/RVG/Addey, I only wish I had the Dizzy Reece Select at hand to make comments about the set (or comments about McMaster's work on the set).

Edited March 28, 2004 by wesbed

[Free For All]

I'm not the audiophile that many on the board are, which is not intended to be a criticism of anyone. I love hanging out with audiophiles (that term still sounds semi-illegal to me), but myself, I purchase CDs for the music, and in all honesty I never look at who might have engineered the product. My equipment is not high end, but I'm very satisfied with my listening experience. I think this comes from a lifetime of being a freelance musician- financially I've never been able to afford spending big bucks on stereo equipment. I'm amazed that I own a house!

It's not like I'm unable to appreciate quality though- when I hear a friend's high-end stereo or high def TV, or drink expensive wine or single-malt scotch I know the difference, but I don't feel bad about my lil' old sound system at home. I'd rather spend my money on accumulating a butt-load of great music. My personal areas of high expectations are my own playing, writing and teaching, so it's not like I don't know what quality is or should be.

I'm also glad I don't have perfect pitch- I'd go crazy with all the out-of-tune pianos I have to play against!

Sometimes I used to wonder if something was wrong with my ears- I often didn't hear what people were complaining about regarding things like Addey vs. McMaster, or if I did, it just didn't seem that important, compared to not getting to hear the music at all!

I'm still fascinated to read all those posts, though! This place is a great mix of audiophiles, scholars, writers, players and fans! These are the people I like to be around in "real life"! Everyone contributes within their area of expertise, and we all end up better off!

Edited March 28, 2004 by Free For All

[sjarrell]

I feel somewhat conscience-stricken to 'steal' this Dizzy Reece Select thread to turn into yet another McMaster/RVG debate. While I do enjoy writing about and reading other's posts regarding McMaster/RVG/Addey, I only wish I had the Dizzy Reece Select at hand to make comments about the set (or comments about McMaster's work on the set).

Don't feel bad! I started the thread, it quickly turned to sound-quality questions, and the I steered it toward the "hijacking" because I've been wanting to ask the question in this forum and it seemed as good a time as any to risk ridicule. And your fantastic answer didn't ridicule at all. I like where this thread has gone.

I also really love the Reece set. I'm lisening to it at work on a pretty decent system with great separation. And the quality is aces to these old ears! As is the quality of this discussion. Keep on keepin' on...

[Bluerein]

This is NOT critisism to Mr. McMaster but......

Ron is a Capitol staff engineer and based in California (where the master tapes are stored too) so if a Capitol/EMI label reissue has to be mastered it's done there and usually by Mr. McMaster because of his expertise. If there has to be some remixing done MC uses Addey (NYC based) so he can sit in easier and do it together.

Cheers,

Reinier

[Gary]

Got it today. It's a very good thing. So who got the first 407 of 'em?

No 53 landed on my doorstep this morning.

[Gary]

Just listened to the first session - very solid & enjoyable . Tubby Hayes is MAGNIFICENT , I going to have a search around the site to see if I can find any Tubby Hayes recommendations.

Edited March 29, 2004 by Gary

[Stefan Wood]

Gary, there are plenty of good Tubby Hayes sessions on cd. Jasmine records has done a good job of reissuing 50's and early 60's British bop music. There are even a couple of Dizzy Reece led sessions as well. Fontana reissues, etc.

[Shrdlu]

Re Michael Cuscuna using McMaster, the fact that Ron is used so much does not necessarily mean that Michael loves his work. I think the label is just stuck with him because he is there. Maybe they don't want to get rid of him for fear of hurting his feelings. The Capitol company probably doesn't really care about this one way or another.

My feeling about Michael Cuscuna is that he does not necessarily do something just because there are requests for it. If he has decided about something, that tends to be it. So protests about McMaster are likely to be brushed off.

Anyway, getting back to the Reece set, I highly recommend the material (though I won't be buying the new set as I don't want any more McMaster stuff). One thing that's special about this collection is that it includes a session ("Star Bright") with Hank Mobley at around the time when he is generally considered to have been at his peak; that is, the time of "Soul Station", Roll "Call" and "Workout". As well as Dizzy playing so well, Hank is every bit as good as on his best recordings on this session with Reece. And, you get Wynton Kelly and Paul Chambers, whose work contributed such a lot to Hank's best albums, plus Art Taylor sounding better than ever - even as fiery as Blakey at times.

I think that Dizzy's best session is "Flight To Jordan", where he is heavily featured. This is not meant to criticize his own sessions, though.

[Dan Gould]

Re Michael Cuscuna using McMaster, the fact that Ron is used so much does not necessarily mean that Michael loves his work. I think the label is just stuck with him because he is there. Maybe they don't want to get rid of him for fear of hurting his feelings. The Capitol company probably doesn't really care about this one way or another.

My feeling about Michael Cuscuna is that he does not necessarily do something just because there are requests for it. If he has decided about something, that tends to be it. So protests about McMaster are likely to be brushed off.

A corporation that cares about someone's feelings?????

And no, Michael doesn't respond to requests, that's why we ended up with reissues like the very first Grant Green session, which he had originally described as unreleasable; or the Cy Touff West Coast Classic (which Michael specifically referred to as being strongly requested, particularly by the jazz audience that isn't online). And I bet Michael is a huge Four Freshman fan, that's why he put that out.

[Brad]

Reinier's comment about McMaster is quite revealing. Capitol probably wants to use him not because any great love for him but because it's cheaper to do so. Sending out masters to Malcolm Addey involves extra expense (shipping, insurance, etc.), which they can avoid with McMaster. Why McMaster is used now makes a whole lot more sense.

[Shrdlu]

And no, Michael doesn't respond to requests, that's why we ended up with reissues like the very first Grant Green session, which he had originally described as unreleasable; or the Cy Touff West Coast Classic (which Michael specifically referred to as being strongly requested, particularly by the jazz audience that isn't online). And I bet Michael is a huge Four Freshman fan, that's why he put that out.

I didn't say that Michael never responds to requests. Just that he does not necessarily respond to requests.

I have emailed him several times, and found him always to be very courteous, by the way. But obviously very busy, too, with not a lot of time to look into all the things that try to claim his attention. I'm purely speculating when I say this, but I get the impression that he's not an audiophile, and probably doesn't care a lot who does the remastering as long as it's reasonable. That is, Ron's work does not bother him. Ron's work is journeyman work that suffices for the job at hand. (I knew a pianist once who used to say jokingly "It's good enough for jazz.")

To repeat, this is speculation, so don't take it any more seriously than that. I do wonder why Ron stays on, though. Reinier's suggestion is very likely to be true - sheer convenience and pragmatism seem to be the answer.

Anyway, enough of this worn-out topic, and we now return you to the Reece set, already in progress.

[Bluerein]

MC is indeed not an audiophile but he cares a lot about the sound of product which caries his name as reissue producer so if he didn't like the remastering by RMcM he surely would redo it.

And the "sugestion" made by me came from MC himself so I guess they are true.......

Cheers,

Reinier

[Stefan Wood]

Question- if Cucusna doen't "care" about remastering, then why the hell are they putting out Van Gelder reissues? I don't consider myself an audiophile, but I am no longer satisfied with the sound of certain reissues (even TOCJs, which popularity on this board baffles me), but I have, with rare exception, been always satisfied with the Mosaics and many of the Blue Notes. McMaster vs whomever is just anal fussing. Sorry, but I just have to rant.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Quick!! Someone give that man a fistful of Japanese Bethlehems to quiet him down!!!

[jazzbo]

If Cuscuna is not an audiophile. . . then the RVG thing could be a marketing ploy, eh? I think it is--either way--and am happy that it is cuz I really dig them!

[John L]

Quick!! Someone give that man a fistful of Japanese Bethlehems to quiet him down!!!

Whithout marketing ploys like RVGs, we would probably just spend more money on vodka. Thank you, MC, RVG, RMc et al !

[garthsj]

O.K. ..... bottom line here .... I am a very big supporter of Mosaic (they have a second mortgage on my house) ... BUT... is there any reason for me to get the Dizzy Reece Select, other than the booklet, if I already have all of this material on a variety of BN issues, both JRVG and domestic, acquired over the years? Is the remastering worth upgrading, or should I upgrade my original Vee-Jays by acquiring the Mosaic sets, which have received a lot of praise on the list?

Garth.

Edited April 2, 2004 by garthsj