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OT: Deepfake Technology For Music is Dangerous, Dystopian and Unethical

CJ Shearn
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Bluesnik Enthusiast

Bluesnik

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What I see disturbing in all of that is that music making like it used to be known will soon be a thing of the past. Perhaps not for us. But for the generations following us. They already love their music Autotuned and the artists like the artificiality of it above all else. So this is already in place. And the music from the 20s to the 90s (of the XX Century and before) is only valued by a couple of mammoths like us.

Very good the article in Pitchfork, which has been a source for me since the late 2000s. Specially its follow-up called Will AI lead to new creative frontiers, or take the pleasure out of music? That article is really good.

JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

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There was a time when this would have disturbed me.

That time has long passed.

This is the game plan of any institution, be it corporate, educational, cult, mass media, you name it. They want you to learn their rules to do things their way so as to create a market to get other people to want to do things their way, over and over again. If you break their rules, you will either be stomped down or else your rule-breaking will become acceptable and then they're figure out a formula and then add that to their rules.

This is not about music, not even. This is about product, period, controlling the means of production from start to finish. There's an audience for it, there always is. If there wasn't, the "average consumer" would be drowning in excellent choices that go outside the box. Instead, there's a line waiting to get inside the back.

Some friendly advice - stop waiting for any commercial institution to do something good for you. That's not really why they're there.

Are you ready to embrace the underground, go all in on not being even a a partial part of this mainstream of manipulation? If not, just shut up about it. And I say that with love in my heart and clarity in my head.

T.D. Mentor

T.D.

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4 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

Hard to find any real positivity when thinking about ai produced art and potential effects and outcomes. Yet it's being heavily financed into existence despite a clear lack of demand. 

Not hard to envision mass-market TV/video/cinema soundtracks all going this route (maybe some already have?), which seems ample justification for heavy financing.

1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

I think we are missing the best part of this, which is that the way contemporary pop music is produced and processed, no one will be able to tell the difference:

https://pitchfork.com/news/holly-herndon-covers-dolly-parton-jolene-using-ai-listen/

Very true. And (AFAICT; don't listen much), contemporary pop music has been like that for a long time.

Teasing the Korean Grand Master

Teasing the Korean

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I'll be the outlier.

I LOVE AI-created music.  It is like music I hear when I'm dreaming.  

A friend sent some links to some AI-generated Beatles, and I thought it was far more compelling than anything the real Beatles ever did, with the possible exception of "Revolution 9."

JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

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They started fixing vocals via punch-ins, when, the late 50s? A little earlier? Laying down tracks before that, right?

That what the Musicians Union was all about, protecting human labor. It worked splendidly until it didn't. 

It's not the technology, it's the people using it. Shallow people, deep people, everybody got access to the same tools sooner later. So if you want a job done right.. 

Andy and Thelma Lou gonna be sitting out on the front porch around Andy's laptop. So be it. 

danasgoodstuff Community Regular

danasgoodstuff

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11 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

I'll be the outlier.

I LOVE AI-created music.  It is like music I hear when I'm dreaming.  

A friend sent some links to some AI-generated Beatles, and I thought it was far more compelling than anything the real Beatles ever did, with the possible exception of "Revolution 9."

Knew I could count on you to have a different take on this.  Good work.

JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

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They used to pound it into our heads, "Before you can break the rules, you have to know the rules".

What they didn't tell us was that their ultimate rule was that you never break the rules.

Automation is the ultimate outcome of rules that won't be broken, or never even desired to be broken.

Keep it between the lines! 

Teasing the Korean Grand Master

Teasing the Korean

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34 minutes ago, JSngry said:

They started fixing vocals via punch-ins, when, the late 50s? A little earlier? Laying down tracks before that, right?

Why start there?  The invention of the microphone allowed for manipulation of sonic reality.  You otherwise couldn't hear a singer quietly singing in front of a large band.

CJ Shearn Rookie

CJ Shearn

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6 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

Hard to find any real positivity when thinking about ai produced art and potential effects and outcomes. Yet it's being heavily financed into existence despite a clear lack of demand. 

Exactly and I think people will always listen to music made by real musicians and I need to edit my piece to reflect that, I didn't mean to imply younger audiences won't listen to human made music, but the fact people are moved by AI generated music is fascinating to me because for me, its devoid of emotion. 

1 hour ago, danasgoodstuff said:

As always, thanks for putting yourself out there and giving us something to think about.

Thanks again. BTW, does anyone remember that Dozo thing I mentioned in the article as a precursor to all this when it was shown in real time in 1989? I never saw it until 15 years ago and that bizarre long necked CGI singer image stayed with me. 

Teasing the Korean Grand Master

Teasing the Korean

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31 minutes ago, CJ Shearn said:

Exactly and I think people will always listen to music made by real musicians and I need to edit my piece to reflect that, I didn't mean to imply younger audiences won't listen to human made music, but the fact people are moved by AI generated music is fascinating to me because for me, its devoid of emotion. 

The AI Bach piece I heard was beautiful. 

Dub Modal Experienced

Dub Modal

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13 hours ago, JSngry said:

 

It's not the technology, it's the people using it. 

100%. Especially in light of these articles:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/microsoft-terminates-its-tay-ai-chatbot-after-she-turns-into-a-nazi/

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/13/artificial-intelligence-ai-abuses-fascism-donald-trump

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facebook-teaches-bots-how-to-negotiate-and-lie

 

mikeweil Mentor

mikeweil

Posted
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These are the things that sometimes make me wish for a big blackout so people have no choice but to make music the old fashioned way, quickly distinguishing the real players from the fakers.

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