Zappa 1972 box

[gvopedz]

11 hours ago, felser said:

1973 was a lousy year for rock music in a lot of ways, quality fell off a cliff.  Horribly disappoint album by the Allman Bros. (Brothers and Sisters - hope I never hear "Rambin' Man" again), horribly disappointing album by the Rolling Stones (Goat's Head Soup), horribly disappointing album by Chicago (VI), horrible album by Grand Funk (We're An American Band), etc.  Good year for Soul/R&B, but rock fell off a cliff.  Over-Nite Sensation fit right in with the slop.

Well...I remember 1973 as the year Led Zeppelin released Houses of the Holy (not lousy at all).  1973 was also the year that Dark Side of the Moon appeared - I have not heard the Pink Floyd album in years but I still have it memorized.

Edited October 25, 2022 by gvopedz

[JSngry]

Grand Funk Railroad was what turned me off on "rock" once and for all, in the spring of 1970. Just so godawful HORRIBLE. I spent the summer buying Mothers records and then had jazz presented to me within the first week or two of high school, in band. There was a clique, actually, long story. But that sealed the deal for me. All the fun was gone from rock, it now turned into something else...so much vanity over nothing, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. There were exceptions, of course, but...who cared, really? I got Transition while still 14, and, you know, all that loud cocknoise seemed kind of a fool's game, then and now.

[felser]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Grand Funk Railroad was what turned me off on "rock" once and for all, in the spring of 1970. Just so godawful HORRIBLE. I spent the summer buying Mothers records and then had jazz presented to me within the first week or two of high school, in band. There was a clique, actually, long story. But that sealed the deal for me. All the fun was gone from rock, it now turned into something else...so much vanity over nothing, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. There were exceptions, of course, but...who cared, really? I got Transition while still 14, and, you know, all that loud cocknoise seemed kind of a fool's game, then and now.

A Love Supreme at 17 was the turning point for me, late 1972.  Transition came a little later, I think late '73, and remains my favorite Trane album of all.

Edited October 25, 2022 by felser

[JSngry]

Being into Hendrix, later Trane, Ayler, & Shepp made sense to me in ways that Grand Funk Railroad did not even begin to.

[felser]

2 hours ago, gvopedz said:

Well...I remember 1973 as the year Led Zeppelin released Houses of the Holy (not lousy at all).  1973 was also the year that Dark Side of the Moon appeared - I have not heard the Pink Floyd album in years but I still have it memorized.

'Houses of the Holy' is a very good album, but a long drop off from the spectacular 'Led Zeppelin IV', so was another disappointment to me at the time.  It does sound better now.   DSOTM is an album I respect more than enjoy, and the clap trap it caused lesser artists to produce is terrible.  BTW, Jethro Tull's 'A Passion Play' was yet another deeply disappointing 1973 album.

[Jim Duckworth]

13 hours ago, felser said:

1973 was a lousy year for rock music in a lot of ways, quality fell off a cliff.  Over-Nite Sensation fit right in with the slop.

It was a seeming sea change in the music that had been such fun just a year or two before that.  I thought I was just "growing up."   

[mjzee]

This thread has morphed into an interesting discussion about 1973 rock.  I can't say that at the time I noticed a distinct drop-off in quality, although music styles do morph.  Dylan reappeared with Planet Waves, which I really liked.  Reggae was making inroads with The Wailers' Burnin', The Harder They Come soundtrack, and Toots & The Maytals' Funky Kingston.  I saw Zappa 5 or 6 times that year (including 4 times within 2 weeks)...sometimes less is more, y'know?  The Dead released Wake Of The Flood, which was excellent if a little soft, and Garcia/Saunders released a great double album.  I also saw The Dead for the first time that year.  Speaking of soft, Jackson Browne released For Everyman, which I liked, and which helped set the tone for the next few years.  John Lennon's Mind Games was good.  King Crimson's Larks' Tongues In Aspic was excellent.  I liked Houses Of The Holy more than I did Zoso.  Leo Kottke did the great My Feet Are Smiling.  Mahavishnu's Between Nothingness & Eternity blew me away (I was also at the show).  I loved Neil Young's Time Fades Away, also Soft Machine 7.  

On the other hand, Beefheart went off-the-charts bad with Unconditionally Guaranteed and that tour with The Tragic Band.  Iggy released Raw Power, which was certainly strange (should have been recorded in Detroit).  Tim Buckley's Sefronia: I wish I could have liked it more.

Jazz-wise, 1973 was my first exposure to Oregon and Sam Rivers (both live).  Also first saw Sun Ra, but wasn't impressed.

I always saw Grand Funk as a Monkees-type phenomenon.  Didn't bother me, didn't affect me, but thankfully they weren't played much on NYC radio (except for that "I'm getting closer to my home" song...boy, there were a lot of songs at the time about wanting to go home, going home, leaving home, etc.).  

[mjzee]

4 hours ago, gvopedz said:

1973 was also the year that Dark Side of the Moon appeared - I have not heard the Pink Floyd album in years but I still have it memorized.

I always thought Dark Side Of The Moon was a smoke dope in college/test out your stereo album.

[felser]

1 hour ago, mjzee said:

This thread has morphed into an interesting discussion about 1973 rock.  I can't say that at the time I noticed a distinct drop-off in quality, although music styles do morph.  Dylan reappeared with Planet Waves, which I really liked.  Reggae was making inroads with The Wailers' Burnin', The Harder They Come soundtrack, and Toots & The Maytals' Funky Kingston.  I saw Zappa 5 or 6 times that year (including 4 times within 2 weeks)...sometimes less is more, y'know?  The Dead released Wake Of The Flood, which was excellent if a little soft, and Garcia/Saunders released a great double album.  I also saw The Dead for the first time that year.  Speaking of soft, Jackson Browne released For Everyman, which I liked, and which helped set the tone for the next few years.  John Lennon's Mind Games was good.  King Crimson's Larks' Tongues In Aspic was excellent.  I liked Houses Of The Holy more than I did Zoso.  Leo Kottke did the great My Feet Are Smiling.  Mahavishnu's Between Nothingness & Eternity blew me away (I was also at the show).  I loved Neil Young's Time Fades Away, also Soft Machine 7.  

On the other hand, Beefheart went off-the-charts bad with Unconditionally Guaranteed and that tour with The Tragic Band.  Iggy released Raw Power, which was certainly strange (should have been recorded in Detroit).  Tim Buckley's Sefronia: I wish I could have liked it more.

Jazz-wise, 1973 was my first exposure to Oregon and Sam Rivers (both live).  Also first saw Sun Ra, but wasn't impressed.

I always saw Grand Funk as a Monkees-type phenomenon.  Didn't bother me, didn't affect me, but thankfully they weren't played much on NYC radio (except for that "I'm getting closer to my home" song...boy, there were a lot of songs at the time about wanting to go home, going home, leaving home, etc.).  

Totally with you on that Crimson album - stunning then and now.  Mahavishnu and Soft Machine sit on my jazz shelves, but they are really good albums, though to me a step down from their immediate predecessors. I'm not a Reggae fan, have some token Bob Marley, and that's it.  I like the other albums you mention, but as you correctly indicate, they were a step towards the softer side (except the Neil Young, which was intentional commercial suicide). My idea of a great Dead was/is 'Live/Dead' and "The Other One".  As Mr. Duckworth indicates, IMHO, the fun and excitement at that point was gone from Rock, but was very alive in the early Jazz Fusion (RTF, Weather Report, Mahavishnu, Miles, etc.) and Soul/R&B (TSOP and much more).

20 minutes ago, mjzee said:

I always thought Dark Side Of The Moon was a smoke dope in college/test out your stereo album.

Or to watch the first 20 minutes of 'The Wizard of Oz' (BTW, it works!).

[gvopedz]

1 hour ago, mjzee said:

I always thought Dark Side Of The Moon was a smoke dope in college/test out your stereo album.

I knew that response was coming - I have heard it many times.  I first heard Dark Side of the Moon long before college and I was not smoking dope.

[felser]

33 minutes ago, mjzee said:

This thread has morphed into an interesting discussion about 1973 rock.  I can't say that at the time I noticed a distinct drop-off in quality, although music styles do morph.  Dylan reappeared with Planet Waves, which I really liked.  Reggae was making inroads with The Wailers' Burnin', The Harder They Come soundtrack, and Toots & The Maytals' Funky Kingston.  I saw Zappa 5 or 6 times that year (including 4 times within 2 weeks)...sometimes less is more, y'know?  The Dead released Wake Of The Flood, which was excellent if a little soft, and Garcia/Saunders released a great double album.  I also saw The Dead for the first time that year.  Speaking of soft, Jackson Browne released For Everyman, which I liked, and which helped set the tone for the next few years.  John Lennon's Mind Games was good.  King Crimson's Larks' Tongues In Aspic was excellent.  I liked Houses Of The Holy more than I did Zoso.  Leo Kottke did the great My Feet Are Smiling.  Mahavishnu's Between Nothingness & Eternity blew me away (I was also at the show).  I loved Neil Young's Time Fades Away, also Soft Machine 7.  

On the other hand, Beefheart went off-the-charts bad with Unconditionally Guaranteed and that tour with The Tragic Band.  Iggy released Raw Power, which was certainly strange (should have been recorded in Detroit).  Tim Buckley's Sefronia: I wish I could have liked it more.

Totally with you on that Crimson album - stunning then and now.  Mahavishnu and Soft Machine sit on my jazz shelves, but they are really good albums, though to me a step down from their immediate predecessors. I'm not a Reggae fan, have some token Bob Marley, and that's it.  I like the other albums you mention, but as you correctly indicate, they were a step towards the softer side.  My idea of a great Dead was/is 'Live/Dead' and "The Other One".  As Mr. Duckworth indicates, IMHO, the fun and excitement at that point was gone from Rock, but was very alive in the early Jazz Fusion (RTF, Weather Report, Mahavishnu, Miles, etc.) and Soul/R&B (TSOP and much more).

2 hours ago, mjzee said:

I always thought Dark Side Of The Moon was a smoke dope in college/test out your stereo album.

Or something to play while watching the first 20 minutes of The Wizard of Oz (by the way, the synch IS eerily amazing).

[felser]

Some albums I do love from 1973:  Genesis 'Selling England By The Pound', Doobie Brothers  'The Captain And Me'.  By far the best albums those groups would ever make.  Also really like Blues Project 'Reunion In Central Park'.

Edited October 26, 2022 by felser

[romualdo]

not to forget the german scene (I was very into)

'73 alumni - Can (Future Days), Faust (Faust IV & Faust Tapes), Kraftwerk (Ralph & Florian), Neu (Neu 2)

[Dub Modal]

Tried Yes' Tales last night as a result of reading this thread and got about a song and half in. Not terrible but I couldn't hang all the way through. I dig their earlier albums and then Relayer which was after Tales. Holds up better for me than LZ. 

[JSngry]

It's been literally 45 or so years since the last time I listened to it, but what I remember liking about it was the seemingly in-depth arranging/composing, almost like a fusion band in that regard.

Of course, my memory today kinda auto-equates that to ponderous and overbearing, so....not gonna temp fate, just gonna let that one be.

[Д.Д.]

Black Sabbath's "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" is a great 1973 album (and Bill Ward is quite a swinging drummer).

Billy Cobham's "Spectrum" was solid, better than contemporary Mahavishnu stuff, IMHO.

Gentle Giant's "In a Glass House" was an interesting album too.

And not to forget Henry Cow's debut, "Legend"! 

I can well imagine Zappa's "Over-Nite Sensation" being a disappointment for those (few) who enjoyed "Waka/Jawaka" and "Grand Wazoo" a year before. From what I understand, it was not selling that great either - that is, until a well-selling Apostrophe (') was released in 1974, pulling "Over-Nite Sensation's" sales with it. I like the album still. Very tight playing, good tunes ("Montana", "Zomby Woof"), really well recorded. Good singing too - you don't hear Ricky Lancelotti elsewhere, do you?      

  

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Д.Д.

[HutchFan]

On 10/25/2022 at 2:41 PM, felser said:

As Mr. Duckworth indicates, IMHO, the fun and excitement at that point was gone from Rock, but was very alive in the early Jazz Fusion (RTF, Weather Report, Mahavishnu, Miles, etc.) and Soul/R&B (TSOP and much more).

IMO, there was all sorts of interesting jazz being made in '73, not just fusion.  Consider:

• Rahsaan Roland Kirk – Prepare Thyself to Deal with a Miracle (Atlantic, 1973)
• Joe Henderson – Multiple (Milestone, 1973)
• Eddie Henderson – Realization (Capricorn, 1973)
• Cecil Payne & Duke Jordan – Brooklyn Brothers (Muse, 1973)
• João Donato & Eumir Deodato – Donato / Deodato (Muse, 1973)
• Ian Carr with Nucleus Plus – Labyrinth (Vertigo UK, 1973)
• Woody Herman – Giant Steps (Fantasy, 1973)
• Airto Moreira – Fingers (CTI, 1973)
• Gil Evans – Svengali (Atlantic, 1973)
• Marion Brown – Geechee Recollections (Impulse, 1973)
• Abbey Lincoln – People in Me (Philips Japan/Inner City, 1973)
• Terumasa Hino – Taro's Mood (Enja, 1973)
• George Benson – Body Talk (CTI, 1973)
• Norman Connors – Love from the Sun (Buddah, 1973)
• John Surman – Morning Glory (Antilles UK, 1973) 
• Flora Purim – Butterfly Dreams (Milestone, 1973)
• Ray Barretto – The Other Road (Fania, 1973)
• Billy Harper – Capra Black (Strata-East, 1973)
• Tito Puente – Tito Puente and His Concert Orchestra (Tico, 1973)
• Jack Wilkins – Windows (Mainstream, 1973)
• Larry Willis – Inner Crisis (Groove Merchant, 1973)
• Larry Young – Lawrence of Newark (Perception, 1973)

And that's just scratching the surface.

 

[HutchFan]

22 hours ago, felser said:

Some albums I do love from 1973:  Genesis 'Selling England By The Pound', Doobie Brothers  'The Captain And Me'.  By far the best albums those groups would ever make. 

I agree 100% that Selling England by the Pound is wonderful.  It's Genesis' best album... with Peter Gabriel as front-man. 

But I think the post-Gabriel departure, pre-Hackett departure albums A Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are even better.  

Admittedly, a minority opinion.  

 

[felser]

Thinking about this more.  1973 seems like a tipping point of "Rock" taking itself oh so seriously, setting up the Punk rebellion ca. 1977 and the (admittedly often cynical) fun of New Wave and the early MTV years shortly thereafter.  Another thing I notice.  We only are talking about the first tier "heavyweights" when analyzing 1973.  One of the great joys of the late 60's and early 70's were countless fabulous albums made by what were considered second and third tier groups.  The self-titled debut album by It's A Beautiful Day, 'Goodbye and Hello' by Tim Buckley, 'Forever Changes' by Love, 'Realization' by Johnny Rivers, 'Argus' by Wishbone Ash and albums and artists much more obscure than that were all wonderful and great pleasures .  There were some of those in 1973 I'm sure, but they don't jump to mind.

[mjzee]

Here's some more fodder for discussion:

https://www.albumoftheyear.org/ratings/6-highest-rated/1973/1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_200_number-one_albums_of_1973

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_in_music

https://bestsellingalbums.org/year/1973

One thing that jumps out at me are the number of albums I knew and listened-to at the time (that I either owned or heard at friends' houses) but that I didn't love.  For example, Steely Dan's Countdown To Ecstasy.  So maybe that's part of the story of 1973: albums that I knew but didn't feel that need to hear.  Others in this category: The Who's Quadrophenia, Band On The Run, Paul Simon's Rhymin' Simon, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (you couldn't get away from Elton John that year), A Wizard A True Star (but I loved Something Anything), Springsteen's The Wild The Innocent (boy they were pushing Bruce that year), Ringo Starr's Ringo, The Kinks' Preservation Act 1, Fleetwood Mac's Mystery To Me, Bowie's Pin Ups...so, yeah, there's something to the notion that 1973 wasn't a great year.

[felser]

2 hours ago, HutchFan said:

IMO, there was all sorts of interesting jazz being made in '73, not just fusion.  Consider:

• Rahsaan Roland Kirk – Prepare Thyself to Deal with a Miracle (Atlantic, 1973)
• Joe Henderson – Multiple (Milestone, 1973)
• Eddie Henderson – Realization (Capricorn, 1973)
• Cecil Payne & Duke Jordan – Brooklyn Brothers (Muse, 1973)
• João Donato & Eumir Deodato – Donato / Deodato (Muse, 1973)
• Ian Carr with Nucleus Plus – Labyrinth (Vertigo UK, 1973)
• Woody Herman – Giant Steps (Fantasy, 1973)
• Airto Moreira – Fingers (CTI, 1973)
• Gil Evans – Svengali (Atlantic, 1973)
• Marion Brown – Geechee Recollections (Impulse, 1973)
• Abbey Lincoln – People in Me (Philips Japan/Inner City, 1973)
• Terumasa Hino – Taro's Mood (Enja, 1973)
• George Benson – Body Talk (CTI, 1973)
• Norman Connors – Love from the Sun (Buddah, 1973)
• John Surman – Morning Glory (Antilles UK, 1973) 
• Flora Purim – Butterfly Dreams (Milestone, 1973)
• Ray Barretto – The Other Road (Fania, 1973)
• Billy Harper – Capra Black (Strata-East, 1973)
• Tito Puente – Tito Puente and His Concert Orchestra (Tico, 1973)
• Jack Wilkins – Windows (Mainstream, 1973)
• Larry Willis – Inner Crisis (Groove Merchant, 1973)
• Larry Young – Lawrence of Newark (Perception, 1973)

And that's just scratching the surface.

 

Totally agree it was a great year/era for Jazz and Soul/R&B.   Just not for rock.

[BFrank]

Interesting how much great jazz there was in 73. Especially since the 70's were generally not considered great years for the music.

As far as rock in 73, I think there was some great stuff there, but not by established artists.

[Bluesnik]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:22 AM, romualdo said:

not to forget the german scene (I was very into)

Krautrock!

[felser]

12 hours ago, mjzee said:

Here's some more fodder for discussion:

https://www.albumoftheyear.org/ratings/6-highest-rated/1973/1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_200_number-one_albums_of_1973

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_in_music

https://bestsellingalbums.org/year/1973

One thing that jumps out at me are the number of albums I knew and listened-to at the time (that I either owned or heard at friends' houses) but that I didn't love.  For example, Steely Dan's Countdown To Ecstasy.  So maybe that's part of the story of 1973: albums that I knew but didn't feel that need to hear.  Others in this category: The Who's Quadrophenia, Band On The Run, Paul Simon's Rhymin' Simon, Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (you couldn't get away from Elton John that year), A Wizard A True Star (but I loved Something Anything), Springsteen's The Wild The Innocent (boy they were pushing Bruce that year), Ringo Starr's Ringo, The Kinks' Preservation Act 1, Fleetwood Mac's Mystery To Me, Bowie's Pin Ups...so, yeah, there's something to the notion that 1973 wasn't a great year.

I hear that.  I like the Steely Dan  albums and love the Who and Springsteen albums.  The Springsteen actually didn't sell at all in 1973 (despite the "New Dylan" push), sold big as a catalog title once Born to Run hit in 1975.  The Rundgren, Elton John, and McCartney albums are find for what they are, but not thrilling.  The Kinks, Bowie, Fleetwood Mac albums were disasters compared to what they had been doing even the year before.  A couple of (way) under the radar gems from 1973 are John Martyn's 'Solid Air' and the Buckingham/Nicks album.  Santana's 'Welcome' is pretty great, but not sure it's really a "rock" album.

[HutchFan]

I think my favorite non-jazz album from 1973 is Hall & Oates' Abandoned Luncheonette.