Miles Davis: First Nine Albums On Prestige

[Late]

I'm interested in discussing Miles' Prestige LPs before "The First Great Quintet." I often forget how many albums (nine!) Miles recorded before he hired Coltrane. (Of these nine albums, yes, one of them does have a track with Coltrane on it. And, yes, some of the albums originally appeared in 10-inch configurations.)

• Of these first nine Prestige recordings, which do you return to the most?

I've been listening closely to the Schildkraut (Blue Haze) session lately, and am impressed all over again with Mile's sound and tonal control. He also (I'm pretty sure) isn't using a Harmon mute. It sounds to me like a cardboard straight mute, which produces a beautiful sound—one Miles seems not to have returned to after this session. (Trumpet players, do correct me if I'm wrong!)

• Who listens to And Horns? I like that album, but probably listen to it the least. I also need to listen to Quintet/Sextet more—I like the way that album was recorded.

Discuss your favorites!

[BillF]

These were seminal albums in my jazz education. (I'm talking the late 50s here).

[JSngry]

I think I would go back to Collectors Items, with both Bird & Rollins on tenor.

The 24000 series twofer is an even better listen.

Also note that my generation was pre-OJC and came across this catalog in either 24000 series two-fers or, before that, the Prestige Historical Series

https://www.discogs.com/label/305455-Prestige-Historical-Series

ex:

This series invariably had luscious, still-definitive, liner notes.

[HutchFan]

12 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I think I would go back to Collectors Items, with both Bird & Rollins on tenor.

Agreed.  

This expanded release -- that Jim mentions above -- is my go-to:

 

After that one, it would probably be Bags' Groove.  

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by HutchFan

[JSngry]

The other early session that holds up well is the session with both Rollins & McLean.

They're all worth revisiting, though. My least favorite would be the "...and Horns" album w/those arrangements. It does not sound like a good fit for Miles, imo. But otherwise, hey, it's all good. And all the sessions with Rollins...you got parallel/dual evolutions being documented there, so more bang for your buck!

[jazzbo]

I've had them all for a long long time and I like them all, even "With Horns," but this one is the one that I really love. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Moods

And it's not on Prestige, but ought to be.

Edited October 14, 2022 by jazzbo

[medjuck]

I've always liked "Musings" perhaps because it seemed a precursor to the quintet recordings.  And I've always wondered why there was never a single cd release of the December 24,'54 Monk  session complete with dialogue. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by medjuck

[HutchFan]

4 minutes ago, medjuck said:

And I've always wondered why there was never a single cd release of the December 24,'54 Monk  session complete with dialogue. 

It is strange that the session has never been issued complete, as a single album.

Speaking of dialogue: Was the spat between Miles and Monk captured on tape?

 

[JSngry]

8 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

It is strange that the session has never been issued complete, as a single album.

Strange, yes, but never? No!

A warning about this, though - there are "rechanneled for stereo" versions out there:

[HutchFan]

2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Strange, yes, but never? No!

Doh!  I've never seen that before!  

 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by HutchFan

[JSngry]

Those are long LP sides, and I don't think they're in actual session order?

But at least it has been issued in complete form at least once.

Just now, HutchFan said:

Doh!  Never seen before!  

 

 

Yeah, the OJC fetishism only sometimes served the music well. In Miles' case, maybe not so much.

[danasgoodstuff]

6 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Strange, yes, but never? No!

A warning about this, though - there are "rechanneled for stereo" versions out there:

I had this once and wish I still did, and not just because the Complete MD on Prestige box has a wrong take and misses the false start IIRC, but that too.

[JSngry]

"Hey Rudy, put this on a record. ALL of it."

[medjuck]

59 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

It is strange that the session has never been issued complete, as a single album.

Speaking of dialogue: Was the spat between Miles and Monk captured on tape?

 

Yes. It's on the original release. Is it on that Lp? 

Edited October 14, 2022 by medjuck

[colinmce]

Very possible this is a minority opinion, but I think these and his Blue Note dates are some of his best work; I return to all of these very often (speaking broadly of what you would find in the Complete Prestige box). It's less polished than the late 50s/early 60s stuff; mostly squarely in the bebop idiom, but with Miles' famous slowness within the form. I hear a lot of searching in this music, which is not a quality you necessarily find again until the second great quintet. Bag's Groove is a well-established classic, but I would easily put Walkin' in my top 5 Miles albums. From what all I have read, I think this album's reputation has dimmed a bit from what it was when it came out. Some posit it as the precursor to hard bop, and there's definitely something to that. But it's also just as purely enjoyable and vivid as jazz gets.

[JSngry]

3 minutes ago, medjuck said:

Yes. It's on the original release. Is it on that Lp? 

It is.

Although, it's possible that there was a more heated exchange that was not captured on tape. Accounts vary.

[Late]

1 hour ago, HutchFan said:

This expanded release -- that Jim mentions above -- is my go-to:

I believe this was actually released on compact disc, circa 2007. I didn't pick up a copy, but wish I had.

[HutchFan]

2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

It is.

Although, it's possible that there was a more heated exchange that was not captured on tape. Accounts vary.

I assumed that there was more than what was on the original release.

 

[Late]

15 minutes ago, colinmce said:

I hear a lot of searching in this music, which is not a quality you necessarily find again until the second great quintet. Bag's Groove is a well-established classic, but I would easily put Walkin' in my top 5 Miles albums. From what all I have read, I think this album's reputation has dimmed a bit from what it was when it came out. Some posit it as the precursor to hard bop, and there's definitely something to that. But it's also just as purely enjoyable and vivid as jazz gets.

Much agreed.

Walkin' has some of the Schildkraut session, and it also (from a different session) has some fine Lucky Thompson.

I also really like Kenny Clarke with Miles. He had a certain way of hitting the ride cymbal—you know it's him. (Okay, sometimes I mistake his cymbal sound with that of Roy Haynes. )

Edited October 14, 2022 by Late
Dave

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I have always been a fan of "Walkin'", particularly the sextet tunes with JJ & Lucky.

[Mark Stryker]

Pace Jim, I also first acquired this music via the 24000 series Twofers and they remain my favorite way to consume the material.

I especially love Collector's Items -- both the Bird/Rollins material and the Rollins/Flanagan session -- Tallest Trees and Tune Up. The Percy Heath and Kenny Clarke hook-up is magic, and I adore the tracks with Horace, Percy, and Klook as a trio. On that score, the original LP titled Bag's Groove is a special favorite. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

Still not sure why they never (on single LP) combined the Schildkraut session onto one LP side. It could have fit, in that 1968 LP kind of way.

 

[Stonewall15]

The Miles sessions with Red Garland on Prestige are very good.

[Peter Friedman]

I bought all of them as they were first released as 12 inch LPs. . As has been said, the album with horns, though ok, would be my least favorite. Every one of the others are essential parts of my collection. Would hate to be without any of them.

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, Late said:

I'm interested in discussing Miles' Prestige LPs before "The First Great Quintet." I often forget how many albums (nine!) Miles recorded before he hired Coltrane. (Of these nine albums, yes, one of them does have a track with Coltrane on it. And, yes, some of the albums originally appeared in 10-inch configurations.)

• Of these first nine Prestige recordings, which do you return to the most?

I've been listening closely to the Schildkraut (Blue Haze) session lately, and am impressed all over again with Mile's sound...

Blue Haze is definitely my favorite, if partly for nostalgic reasons (my father had and played that album and it was part of my introduction to jazz).

The one tune with Schildkraut, I'll Remember April, is really outstanding. Dave's solo is boppish and kind of melancholic at the same time, and that cut transmits an atmosphere that the rest of the album - or even the rest of the Schildkraut session - can't fully match.

The rest is a bit mixed. Miles does not always appear to be on top form, but I enjoy hearing him in a quartet format, and the support is stellar.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Daniel A