Rabshakeh Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 It's currently the half centennial anniversary of this Miles Davis record. I remember reading somewhere that, contrary to it's reputation as being hated by the critics at the time, the album actually received a reasonable response. I seem to remember reading that it was number 2 in Downbeat's annual critics poll the year it came out. I have checked an archive of Downbeat on World archive, but unfortunately the Aug 73 issue abruptly turns into the Aug 78 issue. Is any of this true or have I hallucinated all of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 My memory is that opinions were strongly split, even some of those who dug Bitches didn't get this. Some did, and some were spooked so much by eletric Miles that they just went along for the ride. I had liked some previous electric Miles but still found this a head scratcher for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 I remember thinking it sounded like bad Santana. I like it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Duckworth Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Bill Cole was death on it in his Miles biography, but I would be hard pressed to find my copy of that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 I didn't get it then, and don't really get it now. I liked much of the electric work that came before (Jack Johnson, Bitches Brew) and that came after (Big Fun, Get Up With It, Agharta/Pangea), but the stretch of 'At Fillmore'/'LIve Evil'/'On The Corner'/ 'In Concert' remains relatively lost on me (though I own them) with 'On the Corner' being the nadir. Would be great if one of the people here much more knowledgeable than I am could explain what during that period is different than the recordings before and after which turns me off. I know part of it is Keith Jarrett's distorted electric keyboard playing (I like his acoustic work fine), but there's more to it than that, and he's only on a couple of the titles. Probably something rhythmic I'm unable to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Stockhausen filtered through Black Nationalism, and drugs. Lots of drugs. And the production was experimental and ahead of its time, but half the time I like the raw takes better. Gettin' the boxes for this period definitely helped me come to terms with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 42 minutes ago, Jim Duckworth said: Bill Cole was death on it in his Miles biography, but I would be hard pressed to find my copy of that one. Stanley Crouch wrote a much reprinted essay: "On the Corner: The Sellout of Miles Davis." That may have put a bad label on it for many people, even those who haven't even heard it. Of course, Crouch claimed in the essay that Miles Davis sold out long before On the Corner. He dismissed everything from In a Silent Way on up. On the Corner may not be among the greatest Miles but I still think that it is generally fine music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 What is different is that Teo's mojo reached full flower here. I don't know that anything other than "Rated X" was so fully a Teo joint. The original record was a gloriously muddymuddled mess. But as time goes by and they clean it up...good lord, ALL the loops and splices, there's a reason why a younger set of ears reveres it. Those types of things were supposed to stay hidden. Here, they are the whole point. As for the critics, in real time, none of them got it. Even the ones who had "nice' things to say about it. To be honest. I don't think that anybody got it except Miles and Teo and maybe some of the same folks who were buying Funkadelic records when Funkadelic was a rock band. People who already had different ears to begin with. And then only dome of them. But hey, these things take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, JSngry said: To be honest. I don't think that anybody got it except Miles and Teo and maybe some of the same folks who were buying Funkadelic records when Funkadelic was a rock band. People who already had different ears to begin with. And then only dome of them. I have, and like, those early Funkadelic albums now, and they're my favorite George Clinton by far. But didn't actually ever hear them back in the day, just knew of their existence. And doubt I would have been into them even if I had heard them back then - it took me 25 years to gravitate to them. The whole Westbound label seemed pretty strange, especially with those bizarro album covers (and I've still never heard those early Ohio Players albums, as I have no use for their later work on Mercury). 40 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said: Stockhausen filtered through Black Nationalism, and drugs. Lots of drugs. And the production was experimental and ahead of its time, but half the time I like the raw takes better. Gettin' the boxes for this period definitely helped me come to terms with it. I foolishly have sold off that "On The Corner" box twice. It brought me good money, but I should have held onto it and done without something else. Edited October 12, 2022 by felser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Greg Tate was the one who started the revelation on any meaningful scale, imo. In Down Beat, of all places. Seems like it took a period of no Miles for all the dust to settle and finally pay attention to what it was instead of what it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Greg Tate did a bunch of good work; even when I disagreed with him, I knew he was bringing a valuable perspective to things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabshakeh Posted October 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Thanks everyone. Some interesting stuff. does anyone know whether it did make the poll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 People still trying to come to terms with Electric Miles lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 I had been digesting the previous Miles releases when "On the Corner" was released and picked it up immediately and played it over and over and over. I was fascinated with this release, still am. I was alone in my small town group of friends in enjoying anything other than what was played on the big radio station WMMS. In college this wasn't played much beyond my stereo but I still played it and sank into a trance listening more than not. I still am fascinated with this album. I listen to the Mobile Fidelity SACD these days. . .which is a bit clearler sounding than my old LP. It's an amazing construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, robertoart said: People still trying to come to terms with Electric Miles lol. What's your view on OTC it beyond a condescending wink at the conversation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, felser said: What's your view on OTC it beyond a condescending wink at the conversation? people are still coming to terms with Cecil Taylor, Bill Dixon, and Albert Ayler so who cares if Miles' electric band takes them a minute as well. Interestingly, talking with Bill and Stephen Haynes helped me to really appreciate Miles' electric music beyond "jazz-rock fusion" and in terms of sound/orchestration, whatever the instrumentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said: ...to really appreciate Miles' electric music beyond "jazz-rock fusion" and in terms of sound/orchestration, whatever the instrumentation. and this carries on all the way to the end, even - especially - when the band became superficially more "pop" oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 I'm getting there, bit by bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said: people are still coming to terms with Cecil Taylor, Bill Dixon, and Albert Ayler so who cares if Miles' electric band takes them a minute as well. Interestingly, talking with Bill and Stephen Haynes helped me to really appreciate Miles' electric music beyond "jazz-rock fusion" and in terms of sound/orchestration, whatever the instrumentation. And Anthony Braxton. I do not get the Anthony Braxton compositions with the numbers and symbols in the title (and I'm really good at math). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Any record that makes Stanley Crouch mad is OK by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said: Any record that makes Stanley Crouch mad is OK by me. I won’t claim to have understood OTC immediately (or even quickly) — but I did take to it more quickly than Bitches Brew (I first heard both my senior year in college, 1990-91). And I seem to remember being more actively intrigued by OTC initially too, and never found it off-putting. Bitches Brew was always more of mystery to me at first, until I started getting some of the ‘Lost Quintet’ Euro-boots around 1992, which strangely helped me get into the studio Bitches Brew material more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Regarding Braxton, they're not mathematical equations but philosophical or spiritual diagrams. I don't really think about them too hard, just as an additional part of the music that's interesting to look at. Were I better versed in Braxtonia maybe I could pick them apart, but listening is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said: Regarding Braxton, they're not mathematical equations but philosophical or spiritual diagrams. I don't really think about them too hard, just as an additional part of the music that's interesting to look at. Were I better versed in Braxtonia maybe I could pick them apart, but listening is enough. I don't get them musically. You well know my listeng aversion to that sort of thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted October 12, 2022 Report Share Posted October 12, 2022 Miles is my favorite artist, and On the Corner is probably my least favorite of his records. Not just least favorite, but a work that fails to provide any pleasure to me. Just saying.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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