Elvin Jones

[Late]

Already discussed on this board, there's an upcoming archival release of Elvin Jones on Blue Note (Live At Pookie's). The Japanese market is also reissuing nine titles of Elvin Jones' Blue Note output (also discussed). The nine titles are:

1. Puttin' It Together
2. The Ultimate
3. Poly-Currents
4. Coalition
5. Genesis
6. Merry-Go-Round
7. Mr. Jones
8. At This Point In Time
9. The Prime Element (2 CD)

My question is, if you purchase The Prime Element, are you also purchasing At This Point In Time, minus three tracks? (Information below from Discogs.)

1. At This Point In Time (7:32)
2. Currents/Pollen (11:12)
3. The Prime Element (8:16)
4. Whims of Bal (12:22)
5. Pauke Tanz (6:32)
6. The Unknighted Nations (6:25)
7. Don't Cry (7:41)

1. At This Point In Time (7:30)
2. Currents/Pollen (11:08)
3. The Prime Element (6:14)
4. Whims of Bal (12:22)
5. Inner Space (6:28)
6. Once I Loved (6:18)
7. Raynay (7:54)
8. Champagne Baby (10:20)
9. Dido Afrique (11:14)

 

Do these two titles duplicate the first four tracks? If so, that's kinda odd. Not unexpected from the Japanese market (album integrity), but still—a little odd. It seems like The Prime Element could have squeezed the last three tracks from At This Point In Time onto a 2-disc set. There's probably enough room (I think).

Pauke Tanz

The Unknighted Nations

Don't Cry

[mjzee]

Also, is the track "Mr. Jones" repeated (the same recording) on the albums Poly-Currents and Mr. Jones?

[Late]

1 minute ago, mjzee said:

Also, is the track "Mr. Jones" repeated (the same recording) on the albums Poly-Currents and Mr. Jones?

Those, I believe, are distinct tracks.

Correction! I just checked Discogs. I think they ARE the same track (same recording).

Mr. Jones

[mjzee]

BTW, for those who don't want to pay Japanese prices, downloads of Elvin's entire Blue Note oeuvre are pretty inexpensive:

Presto Music has mp3 (bit rate not specified) @ $25, and FLAC @ $32.25: https://www.prestomusic.com/jazz/products/8631372--the-capitol-vaults-jazz-series

7Digital has 320kbps mp3 @ $29.99, and FLAC @ $40.49: https://us.7digital.com/artist/elvin-jones/release/the-capitol-vaults-jazz-series-1373034

Note that both of these have all the material that was in the Elvin Mosaic.

[JSngry]

34 minutes ago, mjzee said:

Also, is the track "Mr. Jones" repeated (the same recording) on the albums Poly-Currents and Mr. Jones?

Yes. For whatever reason. Made no sense, imo. 

[mjzee]

16 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Yes. For whatever reason. Made no sense, imo. 

My guess is, the 5 tracks from July 1972 were considered too short for an album, so the track Mr. Jones was selected to fill it out.  I looked at Cuscuna's BN discography; it doesn't show any extra material recorded at these sessions, but sessions of this era don't show alternate takes or rejected tracks.

[danasgoodstuff]

Solomon Ilori & His Afro-Drum Ensemble

Donald Byrd, trumpet; Hubert Laws, flute, tenor sax; Bob Cranshaw, bass; Elvin Jones, drums; Chief Bey, Ladji Camara, Montego Joe as Roger Sanders, Sunny Morgan, percussion, vocal; Solomon Ilori, vocal; Coleridge Perkinson, director.

Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, October 30, 1964

1458 tk.4	Bamu Baamu L'ayo (I Have The Strength To Sing)	Blue Note unissued
1459 tk.11	Toni Omo Re (Loving Your Child)	-
1460 tk.17	Agbamurero (Rhino)	-
1461 tk.25	Gbogbo Omo Ibile (Going Home)	-
1462 tk.33	Igbesi Aiye (Song Of Praise To God)

This is the Elvin Jones BN session I'd like to see issued in its entirety (contrary to what's above, 3/5 of it was issued as bonus tracks on the CD of Ilori's other BN leader date)

[felser]

2 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Solomon Ilori & His Afro-Drum Ensemble

Donald Byrd, trumpet; Hubert Laws, flute, tenor sax; Bob Cranshaw, bass; Elvin Jones, drums; Chief Bey, Ladji Camara, Montego Joe as Roger Sanders, Sunny Morgan, percussion, vocal; Solomon Ilori, vocal; Coleridge Perkinson, director.

Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, October 30, 1964

1458 tk.4	Bamu Baamu L'ayo (I Have The Strength To Sing)	Blue Note unissued
1459 tk.11	Toni Omo Re (Loving Your Child)	-
1460 tk.17	Agbamurero (Rhino)	-
1461 tk.25	Gbogbo Omo Ibile (Going Home)	-
1462 tk.33	Igbesi Aiye (Song Of Praise To God)

This is the Elvin Jones BN session I'd like to see issued in its entirety (contrary to what's above, 3/5 of it was issued as bonus tracks on the CD of Ilori's other BN leader date)

Agreed, as the bonus tracks from this session far outshine the proper Ilori album.

[mjzee]

4 minutes ago, felser said:

Agreed, as the bonus tracks from this session far outshine the proper Ilori album.

Ditto.

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, mjzee said:

My guess is, the 5 tracks from July 1972 were considered too short for an album, so the track Mr. Jones was selected to fill it out.  I looked at Cuscuna's BN discography; it doesn't show any extra material recorded at these sessions, but sessions of this era don't show alternate takes or rejected tracks.

That would seem like bad production then. You book the time, you book the players, you should have an expectation about what you're going to have.

Maybe there were complications the day of the date, but still... Maybe it was Elvin's call. But it just seems weird 

[Late]

So...now I'm thinking the two albums mentioned in the original post do indeed overlap. (Happy to be proved wrong otherwise though.)

1800¥ comes out to (today at least) $12.59. Not too bad. Yes, shipping is steep, but everything tends to get averaged out.

[jlhoots]

Oh - you completists. Have fun.

[JSngry]

Thus, Mosaic of yore. 

[felser]

22 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

Oh - you completists. Have fun.

We do!

[Late]

On 9/17/2022 at 11:18 AM, Late said:

1. At This Point In Time (7:30)
2. Currents/Pollen (11:08)
3. The Prime Element (6:14)
4. Whims of Bal (12:22)
5. Inner Space (6:28)
6. Once I Loved (6:18)
7. Raynay (7:54)
8. Champagne Baby (10:20)
9. Dido Afrique (11:14)

Just buy this one. 

[JSngry]

11 hours ago, Late said:

Just buy this one. 

hey

[danasgoodstuff]

The session with Lee Morgan from that paper bag twofer, that's good stuff.

[felser]

5 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

The session with Lee Morgan from that paper bag twofer, that's good stuff.

Agreed, can't believe they left it in the can when it was recorded.

[Rooster_Ties]

2 hours ago, felser said:

Agreed, can't believe they left it in the can when it was recorded.

That session with Lee is as good as any session from the entire Elvin Jones BN Mosaic. Maybe every track isn’t a 10/10 — but on balance, it’s some very strong playing and material — and one of the few piano-less dates Lee ever recorded.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Rooster_Ties

[JSngry]

54 minutes ago, felser said:

Agreed, can't believe they left it in the can when it was recorded.

That's been said about virtually every Lee Morgan vault session ever.

[Late]

On the topic of Elvin, his debut album (for Riverside) seems overlooked. Besides being beautifully recorded, it has interesting compositions, Thad and Hank aboard, AND both Franks—Foster & Wess. I'm listening to an early Japanese edition as I type, and the stereo sound is amazing. Frank Foster isn't fully under the Coltrane spell, and Wess is impeccable on flute. And Elvin on brushes—the first nine seconds of the album...I've actually played on repeat more than once.

Anyone listen to this album recently? 

[felser]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

That's been said about virtually every Lee Morgan vault session ever.

And in most cases, rightly so!  'Infinity' immediately comes to mind as an outstanding record (interesting that McLean and Morgan recorded so much together, but seeems like all of it didn't get released until much later)..  But especially in this case, this is unlike any other Elvin BN album.

[Late]

On 10/11/2022 at 7:15 PM, Late said:

On the topic of Elvin, his debut album (for Riverside) seems overlooked. Besides being beautifully recorded, it has interesting compositions, Thad and Hank aboard, AND both Franks—Foster & Wess. I'm listening to an early Japanese edition as I type, and the stereo sound is amazing. Frank Foster isn't fully under the Coltrane spell, and Wess is impeccable on flute. And Elvin on brushes—the first nine seconds of the album...I've actually played on repeat more than once.

Anyone listen to this album recently? 

(Larry has! )

[mikeweil]

On 17.9.2022 at 8:18 PM, Late said:

Already discussed on this board, there's an upcoming archival release of Elvin Jones on Blue Note (Live At Pookie's). The Japanese market is also reissuing nine titles of Elvin Jones' Blue Note output (also discussed). The nine titles are:

1. Puttin' It Together
2. The Ultimate
3. Poly-Currents
4. Coalition
5. Genesis
6. Merry-Go-Round
7. Mr. Jones
8. At This Point In Time
9. The Prime Element (2 CD)

My question is, if you purchase The Prime Element, are you also purchasing At This Point In Time, minus three tracks? (Information below from Discogs.)

1. At This Point In Time (7:32)
2. Currents/Pollen (11:12)
3. The Prime Element (8:16)
4. Whims of Bal (12:22)
5. Pauke Tanz (6:32)
6. The Unknighted Nations (6:25)
7. Don't Cry (7:41)

1. At This Point In Time (7:30)
2. Currents/Pollen (11:08)
3. The Prime Element (6:14)
4. Whims of Bal (12:22)
5. Inner Space (6:28)
6. Once I Loved (6:18)
7. Raynay (7:54)
8. Champagne Baby (10:20)
9. Dido Afrique (11:14)

 

Do these two titles duplicate the first four tracks? If so, that's kinda odd. Not unexpected from the Japanese market (album integrity), but still—a little odd. It seems like The Prime Element could have squeezed the last three tracks from At This Point In Time onto a 2-disc set. There's probably enough room (I think).

Pauke Tanz

The Unknighted Nations

Don't Cry

On The Prime Element, some of the first four tracks are edited. The Mosaic box set and At This Point In Time have unedited versions. 

They should have reissued that session with Lee Morgan on a seprate CD with new cover etc.

[felser]

33 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

On The Prime Element, some of the first four tracks are edited. The Mosaic box set and At This Point In Time have unedited versions. 

They should have reissued that session with Lee Morgan on a seprate CD with new cover etc.

The upcoming release is 2 CD's, and the original 2LP vinyl set would have fit onto one CD, so maybe they did use the unedited takes and/or bonus cuts?   I agree, would have preferred the Morgan session released alone with new artwork.