A statement on the continued decline of music in popular culture.

[CJ Shearn]

On 9/17/2022 at 4:31 PM, danasgoodstuff said:

As far as I'm concerned, Deadheads and all other cultish fandoms are part of the decline of popular culture precisely because it tends to be so insular. It's a distorting lens through which to view the world. The band itself is fine mostly, and sometimes a fair bit better than just fine, but NOT the be all end all or even anything close.  Nobody is, not the Beatles, not Bob, not Miles, not Blue Note to the exclusion of Prestige and everyone else, not nobody.

Right on.  Back in my college, my suitemate played the Dead constantly, it was like the guy stepped out of 1969-- wonder how the guy is these days.  I should probably be a bit more fair to the Dead, but I once heard a version of "Impressions" from a show and honestly the improvisation really bored me, and Garcia is an excellent guitarist.

Edited September 19, 2022 by CJ Shearn

[Steve Reynolds]

9 hours ago, CJ Shearn said:

Right on.  Back in my college, my suitemate played the Dead constantly, it was like the guy stepped out of 1969-- wonder how the guy is these days.  I should probably be a bit more fair to the Dead, but I once heard a version of "Impressions" from a show and honestly the improvisation really bored me, and Garcia is an excellent guitarist.

Sorry but the Dead never played “Impressions” at a live concert. You must have it mixed up with something similar. In their later years they riffed on So What a bit but that is really ancillary to what they were doing.

Not from you CJ, but I hear more opinions about the music of the Grateful Dead from those who know songs like Sugar Magnolia, Truckin’, Casey Jones or Touch of Grey than those who have actually made an effort to listen closely to some of their famous shows - most of which are commercially available and often in very good to excellent sound. The reason it’s apt for this thread is that they are really the *only* extremely popular rock group whose music has a huge component of improvisation. The classic live performances of one period as an example: 1972 through 1974 has some of the most astonishing improvised passages of music ever created. Just the Dark Stars played and recorded in 1972 reveal musical depth that many are still coming to terms with. Jerry, Phil & Bob in that year (and from 1969 through 1978 in general) are playing at a very high level. Keith Godchaux in the years 1972 & 73 (to a lesser extent in 74-77) is improvising on a surreal level. He was a truly great pianist from an improvising perspective. But Garcia & Lesh were the true core and both were masters at their craft. It’s my view that Jerry Garcia was just about the best guitarist I’ve ever heard. I used to mock Dead Heads who thought like this. It took me hearing a massive amount of improvised music from the greatest musicians in the world to think about Garcia like this. In fact he stands right next to all my favorites as an improvisor. Current & historical. From Coltrane to Evan Parker to Cecil to Misha to John Butcher to Nate Wooley to Joe McPhee to any of them. Don’t let the overwhelming “thing” that is the Grateful Dead cloud what actually happened. 

Certainly the “scene” is insular and many of it's most fervent followers/listeners don’t know a thing about jazz, other improvised musics, etc. This was a huge turnoff for me as well in my formative musical years when I was amazed many of them never heard of King Crimson or other creative rock groups. As the decades have passed my musical tastes have gotten much more geared to the avant-garde. Especially the last 10-15 years. But rediscovering the Dead 7-8 years ago revealed a group that at their peak played the most extraordinary improvised music with a rock vibe I’ve ever heard. So to me they are all that and often more. 
 

 

 

 

[John L]

Yes.  As far as I am concerned, the Grateful Dead, and Jerry Garcia in particular, were part of the great rise of American culture in music that occurred in the 20th century. not part of its decline.   They did not create the cult around them and should not be blamed for it.   I agree with Steve that the music itself could be very profound.  It will still stand tall when the cult is long gone.

Edited September 19, 2022 by John L

[Dub Modal]

I’d rather listen to PnBRock’s entire album output over any Dead live show or album. For real. 

Bringing it back to the OP, PnB ain’t bad at all. There’s a good bit of Drake influence on the lyrical structure and delivery but damn, he does it MUCH better than Drake. He was a talented cat, and listening to these tunes now really bring his tragic death into focus. He definitely had an artistic vision albeit way outside this board’s demo including myself. 

[Ken Dryden]

17 hours ago, John L said:

Yes.  As far as I am concerned, the Grateful Dead, and Jerry Garcia in particular, were part of the great rise of American culture in music that occurred in the 20th century. not part of its decline.   They did not create the cult around them and should not be blamed for it.   I agree with Steve that the music itself could be very profound.  It will still stand tall when the cult is long gone.

I saw the Dead in concert in 1974 and it sounded like most of the band and the soundboard operator were stoned. Twenty minutes to tune up before the first song, vocals and guitars were distorted, keyboards couldn’t be heard, plus overly long tuneups between numbers. I enjoyed Jerry Garcia’s meetings with David Grisman but have never been a Dead head.

As the seventies progressed I bought a lot more jazz and much less rock, as emerging artists like the vastly overrated Bruce Springsteen had no appeal to me.

[Teasing the Korean]

The holy triumvirate of musical acts with the most annoying fan bases, in no order:

• The Dead
• Zappa
• Jimmy Buffett

Beatles fans are doing all they can to join this exclusive club.

[CJ Shearn]

5 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

I’d rather listen to PnBRock’s entire album output over any Dead live show or album. For real. 

Bringing it back to the OP, PnB ain’t bad at all. There’s a good bit of Drake influence on the lyrical structure and delivery but damn, he does it MUCH better than Drake. He was a talented cat, and listening to these tunes now really bring his tragic death into focus. He definitely had an artistic vision albeit way outside this board’s demo including myself. 

That's interesting. He does have a bit of Drake influence. I can't say he does it better than Drake cuz he is too studio gangsta to me.  Maybe I should listen more.

On 9/17/2022 at 5:13 AM, Rooster_Ties said:

Everyone — and I do NOT mean to direct this at any one person — but this statement does include both Allen and CJ…

Everyone (myself included) please try and remember to be kind to each other…

(And that goes for ME too, when I forget to let my ‘better angels’ guide me (which happens all too fucking easily, especially of late, let me tell you)— and I use that phrase ‘better angels’ metaphorically, btw, because I’m basically an atheist, or more accurately, a non-theistic agnostic)

Remember that kindness goes a long way. Whatever negative things or behaviors someone else is exhibiting or actively demonstrating, there’s usually a better side of them to remember that’s still in there.

CJ and Allen, you are BOTH valuable members of this community. I’m sorry that feathers are being ruffled — but also remember that we are all quite limited in this mostly text-based world we ‘live in’ together. Emojis can sometimes help a little, but they’re also prone as fuck to misinterpretation too.

Be kind to each other, and try and assume good intent on the part of one another. Even when it’s not necessary there, just try and assume the other party ISN’T necessarily trying to say something else with a more barbarous intention or interpretation.

Allen, don’t you go anywhere. You’re a super valuable contributor here. I don’t feel like I know you all that well — for whatever reasons, even when we’re in the same threads, we’ve never really discussed things back and forth much (and I haven’t a clue why that is). I’m not in any way suggesting that’s your fault, or has anything specific to do with you. I just don’t feel like I ‘know’ you well enough to be even saying any of this.

And I guess that’s a little true with you too, CJ — but I don’t feel it as strongly because I know you’ve shared a lot with us about yourself.  (And you certainly have too, Allen, and I absolutely don’t mean to suggest otherwise).

(And of course, CJ, you’re super valuable too. You and Allen both are.)

 

No, I don’t know where the fuck I’m going with all this. I woke up at 3:15am, and can’t sleep (life’s really got me down of late).

Anyway, just let’s all try and be kind to each other. And I’m telling myself that too.

Little background, fuck-it…

 

What’s getting me down (and woke me up) is making it harder for ME to want to be as kind as I can be to others lately. For the last 2 months some ongoing insurance fuck-up has me off some meds I’ve been on for a decade, and now my perception of the world is turning a little more ‘grey’ with every passing week, and I’m feeling like wallpaper paste all the fucking time now, oh joy.

It’s not the end of the world, and I’m sure half of everyone here has something worse (and many, a lot worse) that they’re grappling with, than what I’m going through. But it still sucks, and I hate that I have to remind myself not to be such a huge grump all the time (and I mostly do ok, by over-compensating in how I present myself on the outside, to make up for how I feel inside).

ANYWAY, please be kind to each other.

Again, CJ and Allen, even if I don’t really know both of you (or feel like I know you as well as I could) — we’re all friends here. Even when we’re not, we’re ALL friends deeper down. That may not be true all the time, but it’s more true than not.

 

 

PS: I’m briefly quoting both of you, so both of you get reply notifications as a result — so that both of you see and read what I’ve just posted right above this.

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by CJ Shearn

[JSngry]

23 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Beatles fans are doing all they can to join this exclusive club.

Well here, get this to them, right now. It should slow them down just a bit, at least for a while...

 

 

The kamikaze attack at 3:06 is perhaps unequalled anywhere else in the history of time, both known and unknown!

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Well here, get this to them, right now. It should slow them down just a bit, at least for a while...

The kamikaze attack at 3:06 is perhaps unequalled anywhere else in the history of time, both known and unknown!

Brilliant use of the opening line from "Golden Slumbers!"