Basie - Little Pony/NT Band Origins - What's The Real Story?

[JSngry]

On 8/18/2022 at 6:36 AM, Big Beat Steve said:

Acording to the reissue I have (on Vol. 6 of the French CBS Basie twofers in the Jazzotheque series) the big band session that included Little Pony happened on 10 April 1951. The previous (Octet) commercial recordings by the Basie band had taken place 16 May, 2 Nov. and 3 Nov. 1950.
To find out more, I leafed through the "Count Basie" bio by Alun Morgan published in the 80s (my quote is not verbatim because I have the French edition published by Garancière in 1986; the English orignal under the same title had been published by Spellmount in the UK in 1984), and lo and behold, I immediately came across this:

"In January, 1951, De Franco quit the sextet to form his own group and was replaced by Rudy Rutherford. Then, in April, Basie had an opportunity of getting a big band of 16 men together for a one-week engagement at the Apollo Theater. He lost no time in getting his new band into the Columbia studios to wax his first big band sides since August, 1949, including a splendid version of 'Little Pony'. Neal Hefti, who wrote arrangements for the sextet with Buddy De Franco, also contributed charts for the session that included heavyweights such as Al Porcino (tp) and Marshall Royal (as). Unfortunately the big band was unable to round up follow-up bookings and therefore Basie was forced to return to the "small band" formula."

Possible historical inaccuracies (that may have been pointed out elsewhere - who knows?) aside, this should provide the gist of an answer.
For the record (literally ...), the next recordings that Bruyninckx lists after the Columbia session of 10 April 1951 are an "All Stars" (septet) New York broadcast on 20 April 1951 issued on the Giants of jazz and Swing House labels, another septet session from a broadcast on 28 April 1951 released on Ozone and Moon (CD), and then there is a BIG BAND (16 men) boradcast from New York on 6 May 1951 that has remained largely unissued (as of the time of the Bruyninckx publication). Only 2 of the titles were issued on obscure collector labels.  Next came the Clef recordings by the big band on 17 Janury 1952.
So in April and May, 1951, there seems to have been to and fro between Basie small groups and a big band.

Ok, got a copy of the Morgan book (a lot of info in a small package...I already had the Coleman Hawkins book in the same series and found the same there), and here's the rest of the story, which is pretty interesting and is a bit counter to the "conventional narrative):

In January, 1951, De Franco quit the sextet to form his own group and was replaced by Rudy Rutherford. Then, in April, Basie had an opportunity of getting a big band of 16 men together for a one-week engagement at the Apollo Theater. He lost no time in getting his new band into the Columbia studios to wax his first big band sides since August, 1949, including a splendid version of 'Little Pony'. Neal Hefti, who wrote arrangements for the sextet with Buddy De Franco, also contributed charts for the session that included heavyweights such as Al Porcino (tp) and Marshall Royal (as). But there were no other big band gigs in the offing,and Count was forced to return to a small band again. In fact, this became the pattern for the year: a week at Birdland in April with a septet containing suest trumpeter Buck Clayton, then a big band booking at the Strand Theater the next month.

Basie took a big band to the Oasis Theater in Los Angeles for two weeks in August then turned up in Chicago's Capitol Lounge in September with a septet. But in October he put together a big band for a week at the Savoy Ballroom and managed to weather the storm for never again did he have to reduce the size of his orchestra. The October 1951 band contained Gus Johnson, Freddie Green, and Jimmy Lewis from the sextet plus a trumpet section containing boppers Tommy Turrentine and Idrees Sulieman. The Lester Young doppelganger Paul Quinichettte took most of the tenor solos and, in a good humored subterfuge by Clark Terry in his recommendation to Basie, Ernie Wilkins came into the band as an alto saxophonist (unknown to Basie at the time, Ernie had never plaid alto in his life....

Etc.

So it looks like the New Testament band was conceived in 1951, and birthed later that year. It was not in any way certain that it would survive, but 1952 and the contract with Granz made sure that it did.

that April 1951 session is an interesting one, in that two tunes made it out right away (and I think "Little Pony" must have been some kind of a hit?), but the other two seem to have not made it out until the LP/45 era, on Epic.

Little Pony/Beaver Junction:

+

Nails/Howzit:

It was a grand session! But I don't think that Hefti alone did the charts...not with Buster Harding's name on there. But who knows?

"Beaver Junction" actually goes back to a 1944 V-Disc!

Is it just me, or does that sorta sound like an early Tadd Dameron arrangement?

 

If not Tadd, Budd Johnson, maybe? Definitely one of those Eckstine arrangers.

 

[Big Beat Steve]

11 hours ago, JSngry said:

Ok, got a copy of the Morgan book (a lot of info in a small package...I already had the Coleman Hawkins book in the same series and found the same there) ...:

In January, 1951, De Franco quit the sextet to form his own group and was replaced by Rudy Rutherford. Then, in April, Basie had an opportunity of getting a big band of 16 men together for a one-week engagement at the Apollo Theater. He lost no time in getting his new band into the Columbia studios to wax his first big band sides since August, 1949, including a splendid version of 'Little Pony'. Neal Hefti, who wrote arrangements for the sextet with Buddy De Franco, also contributed charts for the session that included heavyweights such as Al Porcino (tp) and Marshall Royal (as). But there were no other big band gigs in the offing,and Count was forced to return to a small band again.

 

Don't tell me I almost nailed the orignal text with my retranslation of the French translation back into English ... Almost too much of a coincidence 

As for the rest of your quote, I must admit I missed that (it's three pages on in the French book, with 2 pages of photographs in between). It certainly does correct the history of the relaunch of the big band stated elsewhere.

As for the Little pony session of 10 April 1951, the French reissue twofer (Vol.6 of the Columbia Basie reissues in the Jazzotheque series, CBS 88675) names Neal Hefti as the arranger for Little Pony and Buster Harding for the other three tunes.
Amazing if these credits weren't indicated on other LP reissues too.

 

[JSngry]

When did Buster Harding start writing for Basie?

[Big Beat Steve]

Commonly accessible sources say this:

John Chilton's "Who's Who of Jazz" says BH was a "prolific freelancer" a.o. for Basie following his staff arranger job for Cab Calloway in 1941/42.

Brian Rust's "Jazz Records" lists "Rusty Dusty Blues" and "Ain't It The Truth" from the 27 July 1942 Columbia session as the first BH arrangements recorded commercially by the Basie band. This is confirmed by Vol. 5 of the Count Basie twofers in the French CBS Jazzotheque LP reissue series.

If you need to pin down the time frame more accurately still (e.g. arrangements maybe done for the band for tunes only played on-stage or on airshots), maybe your jazz scribe friends (who should/might have more access to source material) can help out?

[JSngry]

That chart on "Beaver Junction" on the 1944 V-Disc sure sounds as if it could be Tadd Dameron, just from the voicing of the saxes. But Buster Harding was already writing for Basie...guess I need to go back and see how Harding was writing at the time.

[gmonahan]

On 8/18/2022 at 9:56 AM, Larry Kart said:

More than once in DB record reviews of the time Nat Hentoff referred to the long stick with which Freddie Green would poke Sonny Payne when Payne rushed.

I'm just catching up on this thread, but I really love this image!!

Only four tracks were recorded at that '51 session: "Howzit," "Nails," "Little Pony," and "Beaver Junction." Presumably issued on two 78s? Or was Columbia doing 45s by then? Columbia did reissue two of them ("Little Pony" and "Beaver Junction") on its "America's #1 Band" comp.

 

 

gregmo

[Big Beat Steve]

See JSangrey's post at the top of this page.
Little Pony and Beaver Junction were issued after the session, but the other two did not get a release until later in the vinyl era.
 

[gmonahan]

8 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

See JSangrey's post at the top of this page.
Little Pony and Beaver Junction were issued after the session, but the other two did not get a release until later in the vinyl era.
 

Oops--moved past that too fast and didn't catch it. Thanks Steve. I have all four on the Definitive sets (presumably ripped off from the big French Columbia LP sets).

[JSngry]

4 hours ago, gmonahan said:

Presumably issued on two 78s? Or was Columbia doing 45s by then? 

The one they released on 78, they also released on 45.

 

[Big Beat Steve]

That would have been this pressing, then:

https://www.discogs.com/de/release/12784483-Count-Basie-His-Orchestra-Little-Pony-Beaver-Junction

 

[JSngry]

I like this one:

[Big Beat Steve]

What I like better still about these promo pressings are the RCA promos that were on 78 but actually on VINYL.
Example (while we're at it):

Edited August 30, 2022 by Big Beat Steve

[CJ Shearn]

This is interesting! A lot of stuff I never knew about.  Thanks for posting!

[JSngry]

I wish I knew Buster Harding's writing well enough to be able to rule out it not being an early Tadd Dameron chart on "Beaver Junction".

The voicings for the sax section are very modern for the time, more 1945 EckstineBand than 1945 BasieBand...and 1945 is a good time for a Dameron chart.

But I'm afraid I don't yet know Harding's other scores of the time...anybody got any examples?

[Big Beat Steve]

I checked my copies of the Basic V-Discs recording reissues again - and those that are accessible online (Discogs etc.), but arranger credits are nowhere to be found for that 1944 version of Beaver Junction.

But how about this??

https://guides.loc.gov/jazz-stock-arrangements/count-basie-published-parts

Check the alphabetic listing ... Unless, of course, they mixed up the arranger credits with the 1951 re-recording of the tune.

[JSngry]

I recognize some of those Harding charts. Still...

[Mark Stryker]

18 hours ago, JSngry said:

I wish I knew Buster Harding's writing well enough to be able to rule out it not being an early Tadd Dameron chart on "Beaver Junction".

The voicings for the sax section are very modern for the time, more 1945 EckstineBand than 1945 BasieBand...and 1945 is a good time for a Dameron chart.

But I'm afraid I don't yet know Harding's other scores of the time...anybody got any examples?

Harding wrote a handful of charts for Artie Shaw in this period. These five all seem confirmed as Harding's work. All were all recorded in 1945. 

Bedford Drive

Little Jazz

Natch

The Glider

The Hornet 

 

[JSngry]

Oh yeah, Little Jazz, that seals he deal, then.

Interesting anyway to hear Basie do "Good Bait, and "Stay On It", modified slightly to fit the band of the time.

[Mark Stryker]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Oh yeah, Little Jazz, that seals he deal, then.

Interesting anyway to hear Basie do "Good Bait, and "Stay On It", modified slightly to fit the band of the time.

A number of those Harding charts for Basie identified at the LOC site are listed as "edited by" -- which suggests they were codified versions of original Basie head charts that Harding put on paper: Pound Cake, Lester Leaps In, Tickle-Toe, Dickie's Dream. Makes sense that as time went on, Basie needed actual written arrangements of those things to account for bandmembers coming and going and gigs slowing down, as opposed to earlier in the first flush of the Old Testament when the same cats were together for years. 

To stir the pot a bit, I played what I have always assumed were record transcriptions of  Pound Cake and Dickie's Dream at the University of Illinois in the early '80s. I don't know the provenance and cannot say for certain at this late date if what we we played in fact coincides with the original Basie recordings. However, Dickie's Dream was revived for the famous Sound of Jazz television show in 1957 and discographies credit Nat Pierce for the arrangement, which is in an Old Testament style. The version I played very well could have been a transcription of this Pierce chart, and there appears to be no recorded evidence of the Harding version. A few years later, the band recorded Dickie's Dream again for the Best of Basie series on Roulette, except now Frank Foster is credited with the arrangement, which assimilates the song into the New Testament language.

Pound Cake was only recorded by Basie in 1939, There's the studio version (Vocalion/Columbia) and a broadcast performance. In fact, the Tom Lord discography pegs both to the same day in Chicago -- May 19, 1939. So, again, it appears there isn't recorded evidence of the Harding version.

On a personal note, the first time I played Pound Cake was first semester freshman year when I was called to sub a couple of nights in the top U of I band on an out of town gig in Peoria. That was a BIG deal for me at the time. I was 18, and in relative terms, I felt like I was being called up to the majors after just a couple months in Double A ball. I got the book a day in advance so was able to look at a few of the trickier things. The only second alto solo in the book was on Pound Cake, which we didn't play the first night, but we did do it the second night. Two chorus of the blues in G (concert) . Nice memory.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

About Dameron and Basie..."Stay On It' was recorded by Columbia, but was it actually released i its time?

and was "Good Bait" recorded at all past that airshot?

[Mark Stryker]

21 minutes ago, JSngry said:

About Dameron and Basie..."Stay On It' was recorded by Columbia, but was it actually released i its time?

and was "Good Bait" recorded at all past that airshot?

Lord lists three Basie air shots of Good Bait, all from the Royal Roost between Sept. 11-18. As for "Stay On It," it certainly looks possible that it wasn't actually released until later but I don't have time to decode the discography at the moment. 

More on Harding: These Basie charts are also attributed to him, covering years from 1942-54:

Rusty Dusty Blues

Ain't it the Truth

Green (Jumpin for Maria)

Hob Nail Boogie

Wild Bill's Boogie

Nails

Howzit

Paradise Squat

Rails

 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[Big Beat Steve]

34 minutes ago, JSngry said:

About Dameron and Basie..."Stay On It' was recorded by Columbia, but was it actually released i its time?

and was "Good Bait" recorded at all past that airshot?

According to what Bruyninckx says about this 31/07/46 session, it looks like Stay On It was first released in the CBS days of Columbia. This is confirmed indirectly by the A-Bl volume of Jepsen's discopgraphy (published not long after 1962) which for obvious reasons does not list this tune at all (yet).

Edited August 31, 2022 by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

So....is a bit of a picture kinda emerging that the last year or two of the OT band is already moving in a direction in which the NT band would fully continue?

As usual, evolution is gradual rather than immediate, or even sudden.

[Big Beat Steve]

I don't know about others, but I have always found the all too sharp distinctions between the OT and NT periods of the Basie band somewhat artificial and would certainly see the RCA period, for example, as a very direct continuation of the Columbia period and do not see a total break between them and the early Verves. Maybe also because I have listened to a lot to airshots and broadcasts, mainly from the 40s, and this makes you more aware of the gradual evolution that was happening. The boppish Basie recordings (including live ones) feat. Wardell Gray, for example, have long been a favorite too. What did initially strike me as "marching to a different drummer" were the Roulette recordings and it took me some time to warm up to them. But I have long since come to appreciate the Basie Roulette oeuvre and in fact listen to them more often than to the pre-Roulette Verve sessions, though for no specific reason that I would be able to pin down. Maybe it's the typical late 50s "bite" of these sessions that gets me at times?

Edited September 1, 2022 by Big Beat Steve