Shelly Manne's " 2-3-4" (Impulse, 1962)

[Mark Stryker]

Gang -- anybody know Shelly Manne's output as a leader well enough to know whether it's fair to say that "2-3-4" might be his best record as a leader, or perhaps his most distinctive? 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

I would not say it's the very most distinctive (the duets with Russ Freeman would certainly be a contender as would The Three & The Two, but it is certainly one of the most distinctive, for sure. It's just one helluva great record (and OMG HAWK!!!!!!!!), and don't forget the track of "Avalon" that was left off the original LP!!!

 

[Mark Stryker]

7 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I would not say it's the very most distinctive (the duets with Russ Freeman would certainly be a contender as would The Three & The Two, but it is certainly one of the most distinctive, for sure. It's just one helluva great record (and OMG HAWK!!!!!!!!), and don't forget the track of "Avalon" that was left off the original LP!!!

 

Burning Hawk throughout. 

Thanks. 

[colinmce]

Most distinctive, perhaps, but those Third Stream-ish Contemporary sides are fascinating too. IMO you just can't beat the Blackhawk sides in terms of his best. Also a big fan of The Gambit, which has some peak first wave Charlie Mariano playing.

[Peter Friedman]

To my taste, Shelly's recordings at the Blackhawk are my favorites.

[mhatta]

I too think 2-3-4 are Shelley Mann's best (runner-up would be the Blackhawk lives recordings), but I think the strangest piece is Mannekind. One On One, a piano-drums duo he re-teamed with Russ Freeman in his later years, is more conventional yet interesting.

 

[soulpope]

Don`t forget about this one .... :

Gret playing overall, but special mentions goes to both Russ Freeman and Chuck Berghofer (an excellent bassplayer !)  .... 

[Late]

This one gets my vote for most distinctive Manne record.

[felser]

On 6/17/2022 at 4:06 PM, Peter Friedman said:

To my taste, Shelly's recordings at the Blackhawk are my favorites.

+1

[sgcim]

Eddie Costa's modal version of "Lean On Me" makes that my fave Shelly Manne album ever. He kept growing each record he made. His death at 31 was a real tragedy.

[Chuck Nessa]

Just pulled out my lp and noticed I purchased this copy (mono) the year I graduated from High School.

[Jon King]

It occurs to me that Shelly Manne's choices of material and bandmates were almost as perfect as for any drummer in jazz.

Those collaborations with Red Mitchell or Leroy Vinnegar and Andre Previn doing Broadway showtune were magical.  His work with Michel Legrand and Ray Brown on "Michel Legrand at Shelly's Manne-Hole" defined jazz trio chops.  His album "In Zurich" featured a gifted pianist and cooked at new heights IMO.  Another unique aspect to his art was that mostly he never took drum solos on his recordings.  Perhaps his taste for music marked his style as much as other inclinations to draw attention to himself.

Few people in jazz have seemed to me as consistent, and dependably worth xyz album's investment.  Artist in the best way.

[mikeweil]

I haven't heard a bad one among the albums as a leader that I have, but this Impulse date certainly is a standout. I will get me then Black Hawk and Manne Hole live recordings.

The first of his albums I ever bought, was this excellent one on Galaxy:

 

He was very versatile and very free in his approach to the drumset, not technical at all, although he had chops for a dozen drummers. No stock phrases, very comunicative, and always swinging. 

This, IMO is truly masterful - nobody else could have played the drum part that way!

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by mikeweil

[JSngry]

 

This 1970 release is apparently destined for obscurity, so let me do my part to prevent that...

This front line made two records that got decent enough circulation - one for Mainstream that was released in it's time, and then another one, a live date from London that came out on Contemporary a few decades after the fact. The Mainstream date is a bit aimless, but the Contemporary date is quite a few notches better.

This one, though, is an altogether different animal, due to two key, different presences - Pete Robinson instead of Mike Wofford and Juni Booth instead of Jeff Castleman. It sounds not at all unlike a Woody Shaw or Joe Henderson record.

Personally, I think it's a valuable document as to what who was doing what when and where. It's also an above average record. How it missed getting OJC-ed at all is beyond me. 

Oh, read those liner notes .. 

[mikeweil]

The two Galaxy LPs were not OJC'ed, either. 

[JSngry]

I think it's interesting that on Outside, it's Manne's band, no question about that, yet he "appears by courtesy of Atlantic records".

Did any Contemporary artist make an Atlantic record in reciprocation? Or maybe Atlantic found the music too...whatever and Shelley to it to Lester Koenig who said hell yeah, I'll do that!

Manne had, what, three releases on Atlantic? Outside might have been the fourth, or an option album?  Max Roach had four, but there was a gap between the third and the fourth...and only the first seems to have been supported by the label to any real extent. Maybe Atlantic had enough good-selling jazz records that they weren't needing anything outside the box, even if it was by Shelley Manne? 

[mikeweil]

Maybe they simply didn't want to confuse the Daktari fans.

[JSngry]

Daktari was off the air by then, lol.

Did that record sell weii? It was on a buttload of Atlantic inner sleeves, if that means anything.

What caught my eye on this one was the presence of Pete Robinson. That guy seemed to have attracted some interesting...things, at least for a quick minute there 

[Quasimado]

Some great writing and playing

[jlhoots]

All good stuff. Just wanted to mention the Peter Gunn album.