George Avakian at RCA

[Teasing the Korean]

A couple of questions about George Avakian's run at RCA.

His initial artists seemed to be Lambert, Hendricks & Bavan; Paul Desmond; Joe Morello; and Sonny Rollins.  (Maybe I'm missing someone.)

How did Columbia and Dave Brubeck feel about Avakian signing half of Brubeck's quartet to do albums as leaders?

How did those Sonny Rollins albums do?  Did Avakian/RCA have high hopes for Rollins?  

I realize that later RCA had Gary Burton and, for a hot minute or so in 1966-67, Duke Ellington, but it seems like RCA's interest in jazz was pretty short-lived.

 

 

[JSngry]

Brad McCuen, check him out, his RCA jazz productions in the mid-late 1960s. Some very good stuff there past Burton and Ellington 

[Larry Kart]

McCuen brought us the Joe Daley Trio, probably at no little cost to his sanity.

[Chuck Nessa]

McCuen also produced Bill Dixon "In Tents With Porpoises".

[felser]

McCuen/RCA did some interesting Harold Vick dates in the mid-60's.  Also Rod Levitt and J.J. Johnson albums.

[Chuck Nessa]

3 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

A couple of questions about George Avakian's run at RCA.

His initial artists seemed to be Lambert, Hendricks & Bavan; Paul Desmond; Joe Morello; and Sonny Rollins.  (Maybe I'm missing someone.)

How did those Sonny Rollins albums do?  Did Avakian/RCA have high hopes for Rollins? 

The Rollins albums did well. I purchased "The Bridge" at Eschbach Music in Ames, Iowa circa 1962 - the year I graduated from high school.

[Rabshakeh]

7 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

McCuen also produced Bill Dixon "In Tents With Porpoises".

Hahahah

[Ken Dryden]

23 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

A couple of questions about George Avakian's run at RCA.

His initial artists seemed to be Lambert, Hendricks & Bavan; Paul Desmond; Joe Morello; and Sonny Rollins.  (Maybe I'm missing someone.)

How did Columbia and Dave Brubeck feel about Avakian signing half of Brubeck's quartet to do albums as leaders?

How did those Sonny Rollins albums do?  Did Avakian/RCA have high hopes for Rollins?  

 

 

 

I doubt that Dave Brubeck was very concerned since the quartet was so busy there was no time for Paul Desmond or Joe Morello to conduct their own tours to promote their LPs.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

22 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

McCuen also produced Bill Dixon 

never ever seen this one. 

2 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

I doubt that Dave Brubeck was very concerned since the quartet was so busy there was no time for Paul Desmond or Joe Morello to conduct their own tours to promote their LPs.

Dave must of commented on Pauls stuff, no?  Daves not like sun ra, i cant see him being mad when band members want to try other projects!

[Ken Dryden]

Brubeck told me in an interview Desmond was very picky about what pianists played behind him, that's probably one reason that a pianist was rarely part of Desmond's dates as a leader. Brubeck also told me that the reason the Christmas Day concert album with the Modern Jazz Quartet didn't appear in his lifetime is that he wasn't happy with it. I've always thought the audio was rather wretched for that vintage a live concert recording.

[Ken Dryden]

On 3/23/2022 at 7:56 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

A couple of questions about George Avakian's run at RCA.

His initial artists seemed to be Lambert, Hendricks & Bavan; Paul Desmond; Joe Morello; and Sonny Rollins.  (Maybe I'm missing someone.)

How did Columbia and Dave Brubeck feel about Avakian signing half of Brubeck's quartet to do albums as leaders?

How did those Sonny Rollins albums do?  Did Avakian/RCA have high hopes for Rollins?  

I realize that later RCA had Gary Burton and, for a hot minute or so in 1966-67, Duke Ellington, but it seems like RCA's interest in jazz was pretty short-lived.

 

 

Add Joe Williams, who recorded several albums for RCA in that period.

 

[Teasing the Korean]

Thanks all for the replies.

I do have one of those Harold Vick albums, the Caribbean one.

But I'm not 100% clear on George Avakian, and maybe I didn't ask my questions clearly.

Presumably, RCA wanted Avakian so he could recreate his Columbia jazz magic at RCA, correct?  So he starts out by pilfering from Columbia 2/3 of LHR, and 1/2 of Dave Brubeck Quartet.  These were known quantities and there must have been a presumption that they would sell reasonably well, correct? So they were a fairly safe bet. And he also signs Sonny Rollins, and Joe Williams (whom I just learned about; I have never seen his RCA albums).

So did RCA say, "OK, that's enough jazz for us, we're good."?  Did Avakian think that this would grow into something bigger, or was it common knowledge that this would be the extent of a jazz catalog for a major label in the early 1960s?  And how about Sonny Rollins?  He must have been happy with the paychecks, but was he somewhat isolated at RCA?

I realize that most of you were not with RCA in the early 1960s, so I guess there are no hard answers, but I wonder if this has ever been discussed or reported in any depth.  Just trying to get an idea of the likely expectations of the label, the producer, and the artists.  Would the RCA jazz thing have been viewed as a success, a failure, or something between?

This also gets into the larger question of jazz - or lack thereof - on major labels.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Teasing the Korean

[felser]

Well, this also happened to the record industry, which changed all the rules/strategies overnight:

 

[Teasing the Korean]

10 minutes ago, felser said:

Well, this also happened to the record industry, which changed all the rules/strategies overnight:

So I've heard.  I need to get around to checking them out one of these days...

[felser]

2 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

So I've heard.  I need to get around to checking them out one of these days...

I heard they were just a quick fad, not expected to last beyond 1964, so not sure if anyone much remembers them today.  But they may have a few stray reissues in print here and there on boutique labels.

[DMP]

Avakian produced that 1963 recording of the original Benny Goodman quartet (“Together Again!”) for RCA, and (as he often did), wrote the liner notes. 

[JSngry]

Oh yeah, RCA took over Pablo's distribution really early on. They did the same for Flying Dutchman also.