Prestige LPs: 1960s Blue Label Pressings

[EveryMann]

Gentlemen:

Relatively new jazzer here. My original 50s copy of a certain iconic Prestige record wasn't in great shape to begin with when I bough it, and a few years and many plays later now, I am looking to replace it. I have no interest in new 180g reissues--I need to have the old, thick, musty cardboard cover in my hands so I can read the liner notes while the record is spinning, and I do not need to be distracted by unsightly bar codes while I am doing so. Harrumph! 

I digress. Assuming it's the same RVG info etched into the dead wax, is the blue, so-called "Trident" label second-pressing from the mid-60s essentially the identical record to the 50s yellow & black label?

Thank you...

[Dmitry]

I don't know which album you're referring to, but Prestige vinyl quality was not uniform. You can get a noisy pressing, and that's just how it was. Or not.

[EveryMann]

Hi Dmitry, and thanks--

I did read an online overview of the Prestige label history; it mentions that @1963 pressings are prone to hissing due to a minute percentage of paper (label) from recycled vinyl records present in the composition. The guy who's selling the record in question has strong feedback, and he says it's in 1- or 2-play condition and it sounds fantastic.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

If the title is available in the recent reissue program from Analogue Productions, found here: https://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&labelid=4473&CategoryID=5, you would be making a mistake to buy an old, possibly beat-up Van Gelder pressing for more than $40. These new records generally sound better than the old RVG pressings as Rudy had to roll off the bass to make them play back on the junky turntables of those days. You should try one before splurging on these blue-label Prestiges.

[Dmitry]

If the seller accepts returns, might as well give the old pressing a spin.

[Stonewall15]

To avoid all the LP issues why not just purchase CDs? Most of the 1950's LPs have been re-issued on CD. Also the CDs are much cheaper.

[EveryMann]

11 hours ago, bresna said:

...Rudy had to roll off the bass to make them play back on the junky turntables of those days...

Hey! My turntable resembles that remark!

 

 

[B. Clugston]

I've had good experiences with the blue Trident pressings. The hissy, recycled vinyl pressings I think are from an earlier period. I will say the Analogue Productions reissues are excellent and I'm generally not a fan of a lot of the modern vinyl reissues.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

11 hours ago, EveryMann said:

Hey! My turntable resembles that remark!

What is that - a ceramic cartridge? Now we know why your records are wearing out.

And if you're not kidding, forget about buying another old RVG LP. You really should update your turntable. I can't even imagine the tracking force of that turntable.

[EveryMann]

Hello—

No, it’s the original Shure M3D cartridge that came with the turntable. Though it’s a stereo cart and my system is mono, it sounds fantastic. I do have a mono GE VRII—it’s the red one for broadcasting applications—but I like the sound of the Shure better.  I believe it tracks at around 3.5g. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by EveryMann

[jcam_44]

Woof! 3.5g of tracking? Is that cart from the 60’s? That seems crazy high if it’s a modern cart. I think my ortofon is set to 1.75. I’d think about getting a new table or at minimum a new cartridge. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

55 minutes ago, jcam_44 said:

Woof! 3.5g of tracking? Is that cart from the 60’s? That seems crazy high if it’s a modern cart. I think my ortofon is set to 1.75. I’d think about getting a new table or at minimum a new cartridge. 

Actually - it tracks from 3-6 grams with 5 supposed to be the sweet spot. That's a lot of tracking force and I would think that it is contributing to LP wear. I wouldn't use that on my records.

BTW, it's been many years - decades really - since I've "worn out" a record. The fact that the original poster is having records wear out, something that seems to be a thing of the past, may mean that the high VTF of that cartridge may be the culprit.

I think this is one of those instances where older is not better, it's just older.

[EveryMann]

Hello again—

I’m not having a problem with records “wearing out,” but I bought a marginal VG copy of a Prestige record many years ago that had pops & crackles to begin with. My question is whether a clean 60s pressing is going to be virtually identical to a 50s pressing, save for the blue “Trident” label in place of the yellow/black label with the fireworks. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Can you tell us the title? I have quite a few of those later Prestige LPs so I might be able to help if I have that title in my collection.

Also, there have been a few LPs where the late 80's OJC LP sounded better than the 60s/70s RVG pressing, so you might want to consider that too.

[Dmitry]

3.5 gram vtf is nothing terrible. If you're buying 1950s-1960s records, many, if not most of them were tracked by much heavier cartridges, and are still well-listenable.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

17 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

3.5 gram vtf is nothing terrible. If you're buying 1950s-1960s records, many, if not most of them were tracked by much heavier cartridges, and are still well-listenable.

Very true - but they are also likely to show more wear than they would have if the previous owners had played them with a modern low compliance cart.

[JSngry]

I can remember when 3 gram was light.

[Dmitry]

On 2/22/2022 at 7:46 PM, EveryMann said:

Hey! My turntable resembles that remark!

 

 

Do you by chance wear a fedora that you skillfully throw on the antler wall hook with your right hand, while holding a glass of Tom Collins and a smoldering Lucky Strike in your left?

[EveryMann]

Ha ha!

Here is the rest of the room, incidentally...

[jcam_44]

1 hour ago, EveryMann said:

Ha ha!

Here is the rest of the room, incidentally...

 Nice. I sense a theme

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

im a prestige guy hey you find a good trident and your set many times= but it depends which album are we talking about?  you mention certain iconic and off top of head i think a lot of the most iconic ones maube got the worst reissue treatments eg cant find vangelder stamps cause so many pressings et al.  you better find it quick, or im gonna mail you an OJC  

i think my trident very saxy mono would out do a fireworks

[Tom in RI]

Are those KLH 23’s?

[EveryMann]

Hello Tom--

Good eye--it's actually a Six. It belonged to a friend of my older brother's, who was the neighborhood Fonz growing up in the 1970s. He died tragically years ago, and I managed to acquire his single stray KLH Six that had been stored away in an attic for years. It's the perfect match for the Fisher TA-500 mono receiver and the three-color Garrard Type A. I feel like I'm listening to Sam Cooke's Night Beat and my Mingus LPs exactly as they would have sounded in the early 1960s.

[JSngry]

Can't go wrong with Jackie Wilson.

[Gheorghe]

Nice pics of the room. Is this 50´s style ? 

My first radio and turntable (I think I got grandma´s , after she died in the early 70´s , was also those old wooden radios, and an old late 60´s early 70´s tape recorder. 

About Prestige: Prestige records were easy to purchase here in Austria. It was mainly the label from which we "learned" about the music of our idols Miles, Trane, Rollins, Monk. Those classic RVG sessions. 

The next Prestige I saw was some early 70´s Dexter Gordon when I wondered that Prestige still existed. We also had heard that they didn´t pay a lot of money so we wondered why Dexter made a deal with them. But those two "Tangerin" and "Capurange" are nice...