The COLEMAN HAWKINS thread

[ds0823]

Thank you EKE BBB

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Posting to keep in touch with this.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Fuck!

[EKE BBB]

Posting to keep in touch with this.

MG

Fuck!

???

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Posting to keep in touch with this.

MG

Fuck!

???

I posted so I'd get e-mail notifications so I could keep up.

Then I forgot to check the effin' box!

MG

[Chuck Nessa]

[brownie]

A rare track featuring Hawk playing 'Body and Soul' with organ only in background is included in this double CD which went unnoticed when (and after) it was released in 1994.

The double CD features music recorded at Doug Duke'sd club in Rochester, NYK, in the late '60s. Some of the other featured players showing up in the double CD are Vic Dickenson, Roy Eldridge, Teddy Wilson, Lionel Hampton, Bobby Hackett, Ray Nance, Charlie Byrd (singing and playiong Bessie's 'Empty Bed Blues'!).

[Hot Ptah]

Some of my favorite Coleman Hawkins, for listening pleasure:

Also, an early 1930s cut by Horace Henderson and his Orchestra: "Minnie the Moocher's Wedding Day". This song features Henry "Red" Allen most prominently, but the first time I heard it I was struck by the memorable tenor sax solo. Peering at the tiny liner notes, I read that it was Coleman Hawkins!

[Christiern]

Hawkins' playing did deteriorate towards the end and nowhere is that more evident than on a TV interview done by Dan Morgenstern shortly before Hawkins' death. It should never have been made, much less released. Does anyone recall what that interview was for?

[medjuck]

wheres the best bean discography on the net?

To my knowledge, there´s no available Coleman Hawkins online discography.

Is there a full discography available in any medium?

Edited August 23, 2006 by medjuck

[brownie]

wheres the best bean discography on the net?

To my knowledge, there´s no available Coleman Hawkins online discography.

Is there a full discography available in any medium?

There were two volumes of a thorough Coleman Hawkins discography published several years ago. Compiled by Jean-François Villetard. The third volume never did make it, as far as I know...

Volume 1

[Larry Kart]

Hawkins' playing did deteriorate towards the end and nowhere is that more evident than on a TV interview done by Dan Morgenstern shortly before Hawkins' death. It should never have been made, much less released. Does anyone recall what that interview was for?

It wasn't an interview (though there might have been some interview material) but a half-hour (I think)Chicago public TV performance on April 19, 1969, by a band of Hawkins, Roy Eldridge, Barry Harris, Truck Parham, and Bob Cousins, followed the next day by a performance at the North Park Hotel by the same band. Hawkins was in alarming shape, and Dan is well aware that some people felt the show never should have been run, though others have felt otherwise. I do know that Hawkins wanted to play on both occasions; I was there. I also was deputized to take Hawkins to the airport for his flight back to New York on the day after that the North Park performance -- an experience I'll never forget and that I hope to write something about some day. There's an account of all this in John Chilton's "The Song of the Hawk," pp. 385-7.

[paul secor]

Hawkins' playing did deteriorate towards the end and nowhere is that more evident than on a TV interview done by Dan Morgenstern shortly before Hawkins' death. It should never have been made, much less released. Does anyone recall what that interview was for?

It wasn't an interview (though there might have been some interview material) but a half-hour (I think)Chicago public TV performance on April 19, 1969, by a band of Hawkins, Roy Eldridge, Barry Harris, Truck Parham, and Bob Cousins, followed the next day by a performance at the North Park Hotel by the same band. Hawkins was in alarming shape, and Dan is well aware that some people felt the show never should have been run, though others have felt otherwise. I do know that Hawkins wanted to play on both occasions; I was there. I also was deputized to take Hawkins to the airport for his flight back to New York on the day after that the North Park performance -- an experience I'll never forget and that I hope to write something about some day. There's an account of all this in John Chilton's "The Song of the Hawk," pp. 385-7.

I guess that being there and knowing Coleman Hawkins' feelings made for a different take on things. I can remember watching the program and being very upset at Hawkins' appearance and playing and being angry that the program was broadcast.

[Randy Twizzle]

A July 1969 newspaper article with program details:

[Larry Kart]

I'm not saying that Hawkins' having wanted to play settles the issue of whether the broadcast should have been aired (or I suppose even been allowed to proceed in the first place with him playing a role in it). I just wanted to make it clear that Hawkins was a willing, even willful participant (his fierce pride was like a blast furnace) and that no coercion, cajoling, etc. took place.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

paul secor: could you briefly share w/ us a synopsis of your expierence of takin to the bean machine in the car, etc or are you saving it all up for the book. it sounds like u defeintely have a story? can we talk abuot it hear on the jazz-bullittin-board?

[Niko]

paul secor: could you briefly share w/ us a synopsis of your expierence of takin to the bean machine in the car, etc or are you saving it all up for the book. it sounds like u defeintely have a story? can we talk abuot it hear on the jazz-bullittin-board?

you mean, larry kart, not paul secor... and larry kart has shared more of the story in some other thread IIRC (a "what did you do the day bean died" thread, or something) (thank you Mr Kart)

[brownie]

paul secor: could you briefly share w/ us a synopsis of your expierence of takin to the bean machine in the car, etc or are you saving it all up for the book. it sounds like u defeintely have a story? can we talk abuot it hear on the jazz-bullittin-board?

you mean, larry kart, not paul secor... and larry kart has shared more of the story in some other thread IIRC (a "what did you do the day bean died" thread, or something) (thank you Mr Kart)

chewy, you being a Hawk fan should read John Chilton's book 'The Song of the Hawk'.

Song of the Hawk

Pretty good biography of our hero. The book has a detailed account of Larry Kart's reminiscences of the Hawkins episode.

[Larry Kart]

Yes, Chilton's is a detailed account (the extended quote from Dan M. sounds just like him) but the stuff I'm quoted as saying there is not quite what I said to Chilton; for some strange reason, he turned my words into British-ese in spots, e.g. the phrase "normally I'm diffident about officaldom" -- who could SAY anything like that?

Whatever, what I hope to write someday would be part of a larger project about personal anecdotal encounters with musicians -- some of them (i.e. the musicians) well known, others hardly known at all, the common theme being, How does someone who loves and whose life has been fundamentally shaped by the music (that would be me) manage or not manage to hook up in reasonable decent human terms with the people who actually make the music? Don't think that any of what I have in mind to say would be embarrassing to anyone, except maybe myself, and a fair amount of it I hope would be amusing. Actually, now that I think about it, the real common theme here would be the (frequently comic) failure, in my own experience, "to hook up in reasonable decent human terms etc." And I'm assuming that I'm not unique in this. The taking Hawkins to the airport episode would be, as I felt it then and still feel it, the main exception to this.

[Hot Ptah]

I have certainly made a fool of myself in my personal encounters with musicians. I once met Don Moye and was so stunned that I stammered out some highly laudatory comments about how much I had enjoyed his playing on several albums. He gave me a withering stare and a comment which left no doubt that he saw me as an annoying fool.

Since then I have been very cautious about even talking to jazz musicians. I once sat on a barstool next to David Murray for 30 minutes, between his sets, and did not say a word, because I thought that anything I might say would appear to be annoying and/or stupid.

I have met some jazz musicians who were gracious and welcoming.

[paul secor]

I'm not saying that Hawkins' having wanted to play settles the issue of whether the broadcast should have been aired (or I suppose even been allowed to proceed in the first place with him playing a role in it). I just wanted to make it clear that Hawkins was a willing, even willful participant (his fierce pride was like a blast furnace) and that no coercion, cajoling, etc. took place.

Larry - I didn't mean to cast any aspersions on you or your connection to the television program. I just wanted to present the opinion of someone who viewed it.

This morning, I remembered something I read in Nat Hentoff's book, Listen to the Stories:

"In his notes for the Time-Life Coleman Hawkins set, John McDonough tells how this enormously independent, proud musician - who always kept hearing into the future - handled his last battle. In 1969, ailing, Hawkins insisted on keeping all his commitments, and one day in May a colleague came to pick up Bean for a gig.

He knocked on the door and waited. He heard sounds inside, but no answer. After a few minutes, he called a security guard, who came up and opened the door. Inside, they found Hawkins with his hat and coat on, unable to stand but crawling across the living room floor toward the door, dragging his horn behind him."

Thinking about this story and what you wrote, perhaps all of this is about truth - accepting it and denying it. I don't know whether Coleman Hawkins was accepting or denying the truth in insisting on playing those gigs in Chicago. I do know that seeing Coleman Hawkins on that television program was a truth that I didn't want to see or accept.

edited for spelling

Edited August 24, 2006 by paul secor

[Larry Kart]

I do know that seeing Coleman Hawkins on that television program was a truth that I didn't want to see or accept.

I know what you mean. I was pretty much in shock myself as it unfolded and terribly anxious not only on Hawkins' behalf but also on Dan Morgenstern's -- not only my boss at the time but also, I think I can say, my friend. Dan, who knew Hawkins well, and having been assured by Hawkins six weeks before that he'd love to do the show, was shocked by his appearance when he got off the plane in Chicago...well, read Dan's account in Chilton's book; it jibes with what I recall. I can only add that my numbness and despair at what was unfolding over those several days was transformed into something else by the unexpected necessity of getting Hawkins from downtown Chicago to the airport in such a way that both his physical well-being and, if possible, his dignity would be preserved. I think it was.

[randissimo]

... I was only listening yesterday to Coleman Hawkins/Roy Eldridge 'At the Opera House', and thinking how great he was...

That´s one I´ve been wishing to pick for long, Red!

Another good one with Little Jazz (and with the Rabbit) is "Alive! At the Village Gate!" (Verve, 1962).

Some good blowing there! Just listen to Hawk on "Satin doll"

BTW: someone, in an old thread at AAJ, mentioned that in the original vinyl version, Eldridge was dreadfully out of tune in "The rabbit in jazz", but this was corrected when transfered to CD. Anyone knew about this?

And just another live recording, with the same title, the same rhythm section (Tommy Flanagan, Major Holley, and Eddie Locke) and from the same year... but without Hodges and Eldridge is "Alive! At the Village Vanguard!" (Verve, 1962).

Oh man, that version of "It´s the talk of the town" is simply.....

My dad, Arno Marsh, likes to tell his Hawk story.. Back in 1966 Arno was on the road with Harry James's' band and after a show, went into the hotel lounge to get a taste. it turned out that Roy Eldridge was playing in the lounge with a rhythm section, and when he saw that my dad had a horn case, invited him to sit in..

So Arno is getting his horn out and who should walk into the lounge and sits at the front table less than 5 feet away but Coleman Hawkins! .. He says to Arno, "You gonna play?" and Arno says, "Yeah, Roy ask me if I wanted to play".. Arno straps his horn on, looks at Roy and says, "What do you want to play?" and Roy says, "How 'bout 'Body & Soul'?" True story!

[randissimo]

... I was only listening yesterday to Coleman Hawkins/Roy Eldridge 'At the Opera House', and thinking how great he was...

That´s one I´ve been wishing to pick for long, Red!

Another good one with Little Jazz (and with the Rabbit) is "Alive! At the Village Gate!" (Verve, 1962).

Some good blowing there! Just listen to Hawk on "Satin doll"

BTW: someone, in an old thread at AAJ, mentioned that in the original vinyl version, Eldridge was dreadfully out of tune in "The rabbit in jazz", but this was corrected when transfered to CD. Anyone knew about this?

And just another live recording, with the same title, the same rhythm section (Tommy Flanagan, Major Holley, and Eddie Locke) and from the same year... but without Hodges and Eldridge is "Alive! At the Village Vanguard!" (Verve, 1962).

Oh man, that version of "It´s the talk of the town" is simply.....

My dad, Arno Marsh, likes to tell his Hawk story.. Back in 1966 Arno was on the road with Harry James's' band and after a show, went into the hotel lounge to get a taste. it turned out that Roy Eldridge was playing in the lounge with a rhythm section, and when he saw that my dad had a horn case, invited him to sit in..

So Arno is getting his horn out and who should walk into the lounge and sits at the front table less than 5 feet away but Coleman Hawkins! .. He says to Arno, "You gonna play?" and Arno says, "Yeah, Roy ask me if I wanted to play".. Arno straps his horn on, looks at Roy and says, "What do you want to play?" and Roy says, "How 'bout 'Body & Soul'?" True story!

I've been working Body & Soul with my chromatic harmonica.. The bridge is the hardest to play because the chords are in a weird open position on the harmonica.. I'm getting closer to playin' it onstage though

Edited September 20, 2006 by randissimo

[Larry Kart]

Great story, Randy. Cuts several ways at once.