BFT 215 link and discussion

[Dub Modal]

Michel Portal on tracks 1 and/or 7?

[randyhersom]

Joe Henderson on 5 and 9?  If we take you literally, all four players can't be American, because Greg Osby was already identified as American. .Not finding anything in his discog that features European rhythm section.  Not much better luck with Griffin, Joshua Redman or Brecker..  If the tenor is European, Tommy Smith and Courtney Pine are possible.  The musical style seems too modern to fit Tubby Hayes or Barney Wilen...  

Jeez, Dexter?

Essbjorn Svensson Trio for 10?

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by randyhersom

[T.D.]

1 hour ago, randyhersom said:

Joe Henderson on 5 and 9?  If we take you literally, all four players can't be American, because Greg Osby was already identified as American. .Not finding anything in his discog that features European rhythm section.  Not much better luck with Griffin, Joshua Redman or Brecker....

 

 

I also checked discographies of Henderson, Redman (and some other names) to no avail.

[mikeweil]

Okay .... on tracks 5 and 9 the saxist and pianist are American,  but neither was the leader. It's not Henderson.

2 hours ago, randyhersom said:

Essbjorn Svensson Trio for 10?

No.

[felser]

BFT 215

Late to the party (life sometimes intervenes to interrupt my listening), but at least I get a participation medal.

1 – Pretty background music to me.

2 – Couldn’t get with the rhythm on this one, sort of like an old-time cartoon.    Very annoying to me.

3 – Background music, though quite pretty.

4 – Beginning is totally lost on me, but it gets much better for me once it gains a little structure, and I end up liking it a fair amount.  Certainly, some Flora Purim influence, maybe mixed in with a little Karin Krog.  Good guitar.  Urszula Dudziak?

5 – Certainly takes its time getting there.  Quite a piano player, and a fine tenor player.  I would suspect this one has the “big names”?  Would like to own this one if I don’t already. 

6 – Good cut, well worth hearing.  Quite energetic.  

7 – Another one where I’m not crazy about the rhythm, though it’s not the turnoff #2 is to me.  They can all play.  I do like bass clarinet.

8 – I like this a lot, both the tenor (shades of George Adams) and the guitar (very early-Coryell-ish).  And good composition.  Would like to have this one in my collection if I don’t already.

9 – Grabs me from the get-go, really enjoy the bass/drums time.    Good cut.

10 – Meanders to me, though they can play.

 

Thanks for an interesting BFT.  Especially want to find out about #5 and #8, but also curious on several others.

 

[mikeweil]

1 hour ago, felser said:

BFT 215

Late to the party (life sometimes intervenes to interrupt my listening), but at least I get a participation medal.

1 – Pretty background music to me.

2 – Couldn’t get with the rhythm on this one, sort of like an old-time cartoon.    Very annoying to me.

3 – Background music, though quite pretty.

4 – Beginning is totally lost on me, but it gets much better for me once it gains a little structure, and I end up liking it a fair amount.  Certainly, some Flora Purim influence, maybe mixed in with a little Karin Krog.  Good guitar.  Urszula Dudziak? Not her.

5 – Certainly takes its time getting there.  Quite a piano player, and a fine tenor player.  I would suspect this one has the “big names”?  Would like to own this one if I don’t already.  I'm pretty sure you do not own it.

6 – Good cut, well worth hearing.  Quite energetic.  

7 – Another one where I’m not crazy about the rhythm, though it’s not the turnoff #2 is to me.  They can all play.  I do like bass clarinet.

8 – I like this a lot, both the tenor (shades of George Adams) and the guitar (very early-Coryell-ish).  And good composition.  Would like to have this one in my collection if I don’t already. Same - you probably do not own it.

9 – Grabs me from the get-go, really enjoy the bass/drums time.    Good cut.

10 – Meanders to me, though they can play.

Thanks for an interesting BFT.  Especially want to find out about #5 and #8, but also curious on several others.

 

 

 

 

[Д.Д.]

Mike, thanks for compiling the BFT. I am not focusing on ID-ing too much, but just sharing my impressions as I go along.  

1. Nice clarinet sound. Cute simple lullaby type of melody. Cheesy Rhodes. Basically, no improvisation, right? Way too long for what it is. Did not like it much.

2. Is this some Herbie Nichols composition? I don’t like Herbie Nichols. Some sort of piano preparation here – mini cymbals on piano strings? Piano player and the drummer play really well together, otherwise not too interesting for me. Piano improvisation is quite repetitive and limited in scope. Sounds Dutch - certain embedded wackiness.

3. I liked this one. The tenor is telling a story – interesting to hear the ideas unfold. The piano is way over-the-top behind the saxophone – would have been better if it were more economical. Not a good recording balance between bass and piano – the bass is too upfront (I like the bassist). The piano solo is OK overall, A LOT of notes for sure – but not as interesting as saxophone. Good stuff.

4.    Well, this one is pleasant - not much else I can say about it. Sweet voice, not very original. Pretty music for large European outdoors festivals. Not something I would be interested in listening to more than once. 

5.    Really liked the solo drums intro. Was hoping it would be a 14-minute solo drums track, but no, here are these needless additional instruments. Piano solo OK, nothing special. Oh, there is tenor as well. Tenor is nice – forceful, rich sound. Very familiar, should know who this is.  Could it be this gentleman? Second piano solo is really boring, IMHO. Feels like it’s two not particularly well coordinated pianists at times. A lot of notes, but still leaves me bored. Tenor is back, very nice, not too original. Getz influence apparent, IMHO. Good track, way too much piano, I liked the drummer the most.

6.    Sounds like the same composer as on Track 2. Like the drummer. Very fluid flugelhorn solo, enjoy it a lot – some really fine non-trivial ideas, and such an effortless playing. My favorite solo in this BFT. The drummer is on fire! Piano solo. Ha-ha, was it a Shostakovich quote there? Man, I wish the bass was not amplified this aggressively – gets in the way of the piano. Very “composer-ish” type of solo. I like it, a bit messy, but a lot of good ideas. The drum solo is a bit too show-offish, but good. I am not familiar with modern European mainstream jazz bands (these are Europeans, I think), this is good stuff.

7.    Nothing much I can say about this one. I think the tune is silly. The bass clarinet improvisation is not interesting. The piano is generic as well. Well, bass clarinet has a nice sound.    

8.    Good bluesy guitar. Somewhat unexpected groove from bass and drums – I like it. The tenor sound is beautiful with plentiful Phoroahisms, but the solo is noodling. Guitar / bass interplay – I think the improvisations are stagnating, both are marking time. A lot of blues licks from guitar. Again, I guess I like the drummer the most on this track – and the drumming is quite similar to a few previous tracks. Both guitarist and tenorist play well with gorgeous sound, but the improvisations are by the numbers and banal.  

9.    Well, this is a strange track. Bass and drums are playing horribly together, sounds like the bassist is actively sabotaging the proceedings – the timing and the accents are all wrong. The theme is sort of banal. I like the tenor sound a lot, and his / her playing too (somebody I definitely should know, but can’t ID to my shame), but the rhythm section support is just terrible. Oh, the tenor solo is over already? I think the guy (gal) just got started. The piano solo is OK (the mumbling less so). Annoyingly busy left hand. Why do the drummer and the piano player insist on keeping playing through the bass solo - is this revenge for ruining the track? Overall, curious about the tenorist (who is somewhat underutilized here, IMHO), that’s about the only interesting point for me here.     

10.    Did not like this one too much either, sorry. The solo bass beginning is good, but then in goes into start-stop potpourri sort of thing with no ideas developed long enough. Very show-offish piano, very few interesting ideas. Good drumming.   

Mike, thanks for the BFT. This is the music I normally would not listen to, which made this BFT interesting for me. The drumming style (which I mostly liked) is very similar on many tracks, and actually piano playing (which I strongly disliked) is of the same type too.
 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Д.Д.

[mikeweil]

Thanks for listening. I never would have thought it would take so long to identify the tenor saxist on track 5 & 9 - not Enders, but a US guy. 

I like those drummers - the reveal will be an interesting read for you! In track 6, btw., only the trombonist is from the US, all others are European - in fact all are except the alto saxist on track 3, the tenor and piano on 5 & 9, and the trombone on 6. No Dutch players anywhere.

Did you ever compile a blindfold test? Considering your high standards, it is one I would like to hear!

Edited February 10, 2022 by mikeweil

[Д.Д.]

Mike, I am looking forward to learning (and being embarrassed) who the US tenorist is. Will listen to these tracks some more, might have some ideas. 

6 hours ago, mikeweil said:

No Dutch players anywhere.

I read through others' comments - funny, several people thought that there were Dutch players on track 2. 

6 hours ago, mikeweil said:

Did you ever compile a blindfold test? Considering your high standards, it is one I would like to hear!

Well, you might be the only one here interested in hearing it.   

[mikeweil]

Perhaps you all think that only Dutch players have that type of musical humor, thinking of Bennink, Breuker and the like. Young Wolfgang Dauner had funny ideas, too. And now there are ....

5 hours ago, Д.Д. said:

Well, you might be the only one here interested in hearing it.   

Fellows, please tell him it isn't so!

Edited February 10, 2022 by mikeweil

[Dub Modal]

AA should do one for sure. 

Also, I've done some further listening and have to say track 5 is a real standout for me. Sax and piano are pure class. Really looking forward to the ID there. You mentioned that Dmitri was close with his guess of Lovano and that it's an American contemporary player.

Is it Sonny Fortune? 

 

[mikeweil]

5 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

AA should do one for sure. 

Also, I've done some further listening and have to say track 5 is a real standout for me. Sax and piano are pure class. Really looking forward to the ID there. You mentioned that Dmitri was close with his guess of Lovano and that it's an American contemporary player.

Is it Sonny Fortune? 

 

No .....

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, mikeweil said:

Perhaps you all think that only Dutch players have that type of musical humor, thinking of Bennink, Breuker and the like. Young Wolfgang Dauner had funny ideas, too. And now there are ....

Fellows, please tell him it isn't so!

It isn't so! I'd be fascinated to hear what passes muster for inclusion

[Dub Modal]

Another guess for the 5 & 9 tenor: Dave Liebman? 

[mikeweil]

Not Liebman, either. I could give a hint, but will wait until next week.

[Д.Д.]

You guys are weird - but thank you for encouragement and nudging. I will probably do a BFT. I gave it a thought today, got some ideas. This is likely to become the most ignored (or hated) BFT ever - but you guys, since you asked for it, will have to go through the torture of listening to it and then post your thoughts. And I expect a lot of deep deep thoughts!    

Now, back to Mike's BFT. 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Д.Д.

[JSngry]

Bill Barron!

[mikeweil]

29 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Bill Barron!

Wishful thinking for a Bill Barron record nobody knows ....

[JSngry]

13 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

Wishful thinking for a Bill Barron record nobody knows ....

Hell, that's pretty much all of them! 

[Dub Modal]

Is it Ulrich Drecshler on clarinet for tracks 1 or 7? 

[mikeweil]

Sorry, no.

So far you all have identified Gary Osby on track 3.

The theme has been correctly narrowed down to a European label. All players are European except Osby, the trombonist on 6, and the tenor and pianist on 5 and 9. The tenor saxist was often mentioned on this forum in connection with a major reissue in 2021. Now, c'mon!

Edited February 16, 2022 by mikeweil

[king ubu]

Huh, Bennie M.?

Gave the compilation a first listen and enjoyed it as a whole ... thanks for inviting me over 

Seriously now, this is hilarious, if just because of the timing! I bought the CD from F. Arbenz and just received it a few days ago - about the same time I finally dl-ed your BFT! (I hope placing a link is ok!). Started buying some of Arbenz' recent/new productions during the pandemic and eventually asked him what old(er) ones he still had, so he dug up one of this for me - beautiful package, edition of 500, numbered ... and a great piano player, too!

Kairos is what they call this, right?

Now I'd love to pin down the twin-singers on #4 but my first thoughts proved wrong (I think), but I didn't find the time to really search yet.

Edited February 16, 2022 by king ubu

[Dub Modal]

Nice! I was tempted to say Maupin but couldn't find anything online to match. 

[king ubu]

What's funny, too, is that the Arbenz brothers' (Michael on piano, Florian on drums) later outfit VEIN (trio w/Thomas Lähns on bass) actually also made a couple of albums with Dave Liebman (and I was sent two of those as well, but only gave the one with Maupin a spin so far - received the package on Monday).

[JSngry]

Maupin, DOH!