JR/J.R. Monterose - Croscrane Sessions

[Zoot39]

Does anyone know of a source for the JR Monterose sessions on Croscrane? I was able to buy a number of the releases some years ago, missed a few but Croscrane is defunct, and Julia Donnaruma says there will be no further pressings. I was in touch with Michael Fitzgerald and Joop van der Leij and neither seems to know where they've gone.

Also, JR and Hod O'Brien recorded in Woodstock VT at one point, but Joop said the tapes were in bad shape and were ultimately junked. Stephanie O'Brien doesn't seem to know if anything survived. Do any members know anything further about this?

I realize this is a long shot, but it's worth asking.

Thanks/zoot39

[John L]

You are looking for hard copies of the CDs or just the digital music?

 

[Stonewall15]

What are the dates of the Croscrane sessions?

[Zoot39]

Either will work. I have hard copy for 5 of the releases.

BTW: When I ripped the files to FLAC format and tested them with Spek and auCDtect, readings indicated that the files had been transcoded. But, what’s the alternative?

(Other files I’ve ripped tested very accurately, so I don’t think there was a problem with my ripping software.) 

I believe the Croscranes were released under the aegis of Walter Donnaruma, the pianist on most of the dates. He was also a practicing lawyer fwiw, since deceased.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Zoot39

[Zoot39]

42 minutes ago, Stonewall15 said:

What are the dates of the Croscrane sessions?

April-July 1980, per Jazzdiscography

[Stonewall15]

1. Was this while he was in residence at the Utica College in Syracuse?

[Zoot39]

I wasn't aware that he had. He was born in Utica, but most of the Croscrane material was recorded while he was living and playing in the Albany area.

Jazz musicians in residence at college always reminds me of Lucky Thompson. In 1970 IIRC, he was in residence at Dartmouth College. I cannot imagine more of a misalignment - Dartmouth, at that time embroiled in a battle with uber-conservative alums who were supporting the exclusionary fraternity system; the campus entombed in a snowbound and icy Hanover NH winter - and Lucky,

Maybe he was a closet skier.

[Dmitry]

7 minutes ago, Zoot39 said:

I wasn't aware that he had. He was born in Utica, but most of the Croscrane material was recorded while he was living and playing in the Albany area.

Jazz musicians in residence at college always reminds me of Lucky Thompson. In 1970 IIRC, he was in residence at Dartmouth College. I cannot imagine more of a misalignment - Dartmouth, at that time embroiled in a battle with uber-conservative alums who were supporting the exclusionary fraternity system; the campus entombed in a snowbound and icy Hanover NH winter - and Lucky,

Maybe he was a closet skier.

Closet ice hockey player, possibly.

I visited Hanover, the home of Dartmouth, in early January 2004, with my wife; we were contemplating moving there; it was a very good opportunity for my trade. The town was truly a serene winter place; kids playing hockey on a frozen pond, neat houses in town, smoking chimneys, very pretty…and very cold. My wife was adamant about not living with that long a winter. Had we moved, I could’ve been retired by now. Lucky was lucky to have lived there for a time.

[JSngry]

Glad to have this material called out...I'm a big fan but was totally unaware of this material. Thanks!

[clifford_thornton]

Same, I was unaware of it until now.

[Zoot39]

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

Closet ice hockey player, possibly.

I visited Hanover, the home of Dartmouth, in early January 2004, with my wife; we were contemplating moving there; it was a very good opportunity for my trade. The town was truly a serene winter place; kids playing hockey on a frozen pond, neat houses in town, smoking chimneys, very pretty…and very cold. My wife was adamant about not living with that long a winter. Had we moved, I could’ve been retired by now. Lucky was lucky to have lived there for a time.

You could have made your retirement nut simply by buying a house back then and reselling it today. Housing prices are over the top. There’s a dramatic need for additional housing - some college employees had to commute from Rutland VT, a good hour each way. Not quite the Currier & Ives pastoral paradise it might seem.

[John L]

3 hours ago, Zoot39 said:

 

3 hours ago, Zoot39 said:

Either will work. I have hard copy for 5 of the releases.

BTW: When I ripped the files to FLAC format and tested them with Spek and auCDtect, readings indicated that the files had been transcoded. But, what’s the alternative?

(Other files I’ve ripped tested very accurately, so I don’t think there was a problem with my ripping software.) 

I believe the Croscranes were released under the aegis of Walter Donnaruma, the pianist on most of the dates. He was also a practicing lawyer fwiw, since deceased.

I PMed you

[Zoot39]

26 minutes ago, John L said:

I PMed you

Can you pls resend? Nothing’s arrived.

Thanks/Zoot39

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I cannot find these CDs or files anywhere on the web. I never even knew they or the label existed.

[Zoot39]

1 hour ago, bresna said:

I cannot find these CDs or files anywhere on the web. I never even knew they or the label existed.

I think these are the private label releases that Fitzgerald cites in his discography. 

[JSngry]

any idea how they would have been released? By mail, or just "among friends", or what?

[cliffpeterson]

I have lived in the Capital Region of New York, which encompasses the cities of Schenectady, Troy and Albany, since 1989.  Utica, where J.R. was born and lived during his last years, is about 100 miles west of Albany (about 90-100 minutes mostly on 4 lane highway). Back then, J.R. frequently played in the Capital Region area (I saw him a few times). Walter Donnaruma was a practicing local attorney and pianist and he did play with J.R.   After J.R.'s death in 1993, discs issued by "Croscrane" that I think are more CDRs rather than CDs (really thin jewel cases and the paper inserts and the face of the discs looked like that were printed off a computer) appeared for sale in a local used record/cd store.  Apparently, Mr. Donnaruma had recorded some of his gigs with J.R. and reputedly had J.R.'s permission to sell the music, which I think was confirmed by a member of this board in conversation with J.R.'s widow.  I listened to the discs in the stores but elected to buy these discs for which I found the sound acceptable, 5 of them, directly from Crocrane through the mail (Croscrane had some presence on the internet)  The recordings that I have are from clubs in Albany, 4 are from 1980 and 1 from 1987 ("Live at the Gemini Club" and "Live on Lark Street").  I remember there being around 3-4 others and at least one was from a club in High Falls, NY, which is about halfway between Utica and Albany.  Mr. Donnaruma played gigs in the area up until around 2010.  

[mhatta]

I saw several Croscrane CDs at Disk Union (a Japanese record shop) in ca. 2000. Unfortunately I was not wise enough to buy them then.  There are strong following of J.R. in Japan (The Message is a cult classic), so I guess Japanese distributors like Disk Union imported directly from Mr. Donnaruma.  They did the same for Allen Houser, a fine trumpeter who released his material as private CDs and some of them are popular in Japanese Jazz Kissa crowd. 

There are many complete collectors of J.R. in Japan  I think this guy has all of Croscrane materials (his website is dead, so I link to Internet Archive): https://web.archive.org/web/20201206112529/http://www014.upp.so-net.ne.jp/jrmonterose/jrmdisc/

Another collector's page (mostly n Japanese, but you get the idea): http://modernjazznavigator.a.la9.jp/frame/jrf2.htm

Edited January 10, 2022 by mhatta

[Zoot39]

4 hours ago, cliffpeterson said:

I have lived in the Capital Region of New York, which encompasses the cities of Schenectady, Troy and Albany, since 1989.  Utica, where J.R. was born and lived during his last years, is about 100 miles west of Albany (about 90-100 minutes mostly on 4 lane highway). Back then, J.R. frequently played in the Capital Region area (I saw him a few times). Walter Donnaruma was a practicing local attorney and pianist and he did play with J.R.   After J.R.'s death in 1993, discs issued by "Croscrane" that I think are more CDRs rather than CDs (really thin jewel cases and the paper inserts and the face of the discs looked like that were printed off a computer) appeared for sale in a local used record/cd store.  Apparently, Mr. Donnaruma had recorded some of his gigs with J.R. and reputedly had J.R.'s permission to sell the music, which I think was confirmed by a member of this board in conversation with J.R.'s widow.  I listened to the discs in the stores but elected to buy these discs for which I found the sound acceptable, 5 of them, directly from Crocrane through the mail (Croscrane had some presence on the internet)  The recordings that I have are from clubs in Albany, 4 are from 1980 and 1 from 1987 ("Live at the Gemini Club" and "Live on Lark Street").  I remember there being around 3-4 others and at least one was from a club in High Falls, NY, which is about halfway between Utica and Albany.  Mr. Donnaruma played gigs in the area up until around 2010.  

I had the same experience. IIRC I was tipped to Croscrane through a comment here. I have the same sessions that you list, purchased directly from Croscrane through the Internet. There are 4-5 others listed in Fitzgerald that I neglected to get at the time - Gemini Club Vols 2,3 and 6, and At the Falls - and those are what I was inquiring about.

There's a vocalist named Julia Donnaruma who's periodically active, whom I assume to be Walter's daughter. I believe I was in touch with her at one point and she advised that there would be no further pressings of the J.R. sessions. There's a woman by the same name who has been active as an Albany lobbyist working for Manatt Phelps & Phillips, a national law firm based on the West Coast; I'm guessing she's the same person.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Zoot39

[Joe]

Sounds like material worthy of Mosaic treatment to me!

PS: It looks like a handful of these may be auditioned via Spotify (and possibly other streaming services). https://open.spotify.com/album/44jjjhpGknPBih1es9HIiO

Edited January 10, 2022 by Joe

[Peter Friedman]

Here are two I just located.

[Zoot39]

Julia the vocalist=Julia the lobbyist.

https://tinyurl.com/2ry4exj5

[JSngry]

Julia and...who else is this? They look road-tested!

[Zoot39]

Mike Bisio (b) on the right. Not sure about the guy with a drop down mustache.

I did hear from Julia. All she could do is point me to the streaming files Peter Friedman posted, which I already have. Next step (I guess) is to poke around in the Japanese music sources.

[clifford_thornton]

I can ask Bisio who that is.