Recommendation for book on jazz in the 1940s

[Rabshakeh]

Hello,

Does anyone have a recommended book on jazz in the 1940s? I.e., a book covering one or all of: the birth of bop, the NY and regional scenes of the day, the NO revival, perpetuation of swing, birth of R&B.

I've seen a couple around: Deveaux, Gitler, but I'd be interested if anyone rates one in particular.

Obviously most jazz histories touch this period, including the really useful Bob Porter, but I'm looking for something that feels specifically with this time.

Thanks

[kh1958]

It's been a long time since I read this, but I recall enjoying Jazz Masters of the 40s by Ira Gitler.

[jlhoots]

Robert Hilbert: Pee Wee Russell: The Life Of A Jazzman

[jazzbo]

I'm compelled to mention this one.

One of the jazz books that most impressed me.

[Rooster_Ties]

5 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

I'm compelled to mention this one.

One of the jazz books that most impressed me.

This looks quite interesting. By chance, is there much or even any mention of Lennie Tristano and his compatriots?

[ghost of miles]

Gitler (both Jazz Masters Of The Forties and the oral history From Swing To Bop) and Deveaux would be my recommendations. Peripherally related, there’s Arnold Shaw’s 52nd Street (originally published as The Street That Never Slept, and which may be more 1930s oriented—can’t recall, been a long time since I read it) and Honkers And Shouters, which covers the rise of R & B and jump blues from a national perspective. Robin D.G. Kelley’s Monk biography gives a good portrait of the NYC scene during this time. 

Throwing this in as an extra, because it’s not really music-related—but I also greatly enjoyed Victory City: A History Of New York And New Yorkers During World War II.
 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by ghost of miles

[jazzbo]

23 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

This looks quite interesting. By chance, is there much or even any mention of Lennie Tristano and his compatriots?

I'm reasonably certain he and his school are mentioned, though probably not as much as you would like. (My copy is in storage, and I haven't picked it up for some time. . . I read the book when first published).

[JSngry]

DeVeaux is a good read, but it's only part of the picture, as it focuses more on the mechanics of the music and how that played out businesswise (to the almost exclusion of the personalities & sociologies involved, which was a huge part of first gen bebop). But what it looks at, it looks at very thoroughly.

Both of the Gitler books give you a better picture of the actual people and places involved, imo.

You need all three of the above, imo.

Honkers & Shouters is a really, REALLY good book, "getting under the hood" (if you will) of the whole jump band - to R&B thing, both the players and the business.

Otherwise, Dizzy's autobiography holds up really well as both literature and history. For Bird, Bird: The Legend Of Charlie Parker has a soft spot in my heart.

32 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

This looks quite interesting. By chance, is there much or even any mention of Lennie Tristano and his compatriots?

Gitler's Jazz Masters of the Forties will get you there.

[BillF]

I'll back the Gitler recommendations and, of course, his sleeve notes were wonderful: "Horace mines a vein of Silver", etc! 

[Big Beat Steve]

I agree with all the recommendations by Ghost of Miles (have them all, enjoy them all). But I would put a LOT more emphasis on "Swing to Bop" by Ira Gitler. This is mandatory reading to give you the REAL feel of the era. It is one you'd want to read several times over and you will find it will immerse you into that era each time and it would be one of my relatively few "desert island reading matter" items among my (many) jazz books.  As an "oral history" book IMO it beats "Hear Me Talkin' To Ya" by a LONG mile (but then approaches on how to prepare oral histories for publication may have evolved considerably since "Hear Me" was first published).

As for the "Birth of Bebop" book by Scott DeVeaux, I have one major quibble with it: What is in it is good and very interesting, but IMO (and not only IMO as far as I can see) the role of Coleman Hawkins in that field and period is grossly overblown in the book. Nothing against the Hawk (I have about 98% of his small-group recordings from the 40s and like them a lot) but was he really SUCH an overriding seminal figure in the evolution of bebop??

Two others I would suggest:
- "Bebop - The Music and its Players", by Thomas Owens. He looks beyond 40s bebop creators into later artists "in a bebop vein" (so to speak) so his is a loose definition of bop. But to get the most out of that book it would pay if you are a (music notation) reader and have some knowledge of the basics of music (chord progressions, etc.). It is not mandatory to enjoy the book but it helps ...
- Sometimes a "period" look at the music you are exploring helps for a better and more direct understanding of its impact in the day. If you can find a secondhand copy of "Inside Be-Bop" by Leonard Feather (first published in 1949, later reprints were titled "Inside Jazz") at a good price it would be a fairly good introduction as a primary (and not "historically predigested" secondary) source on the subject, but of course its "period" slant needs to be factored in. 

I've found a couple of books on the regional scenes very interesting to fill out the WHOLE picture but they all dwell on the periods before and after the 40s too. E.g.
Los Angeles:
- Central Avenue Sounds
- Swingin' on Central Avenue

Detroit:
- Before Motown

Newark:
- Swing City - Newark Nightlife
 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Big Beat Steve

[Larry Kart]

25 minutes ago, JSngry said:

DeVeaux is a good read, but it's only part of the picture, as it focuses more on the mechanics of the music and how that played out businesswise (to the almost exclusion of the personalities & sociologies involved, which was a huge part of first gen bebop). But what it looks at, it looks at very thoroughly.

Both of the Gitler books give you a better picture of the actual people and places involved, imo.

You need all three of the above, imo.

Honkers & Shouters is a really, REALLY good book, "getting under the hood" (if you will) of the whole jump band - to R&B thing, both the players and the business.

Otherwise, Dizzy's autobiography holds up really well as both literature and history. For Bird, Bird: The Legend Of Charlie Parker has a soft spot in my heart.

Gitler's Jazz Masters of the Forties will get you there.

My memory, if I remember correctly,  is that DeVaux's focus in his book on Coleman Hawkins was excessive. Yes, Hawkins led one of the first bop-flavored recording dates, and his openness to the new music in choice of sideman and tunes was a fact, and that such an eminent figure was simpatico with the new music was important socially so to speak, but this affinity on Hawkins' part toward bop was not manifested otherwise very much if at all (nor would it ever be) in any aspect of Hawkins' own playing, rhythmically or harmonically. Ira was there; his sense of the overall scene is more trustworthy IMO.

[JSngry]

Just now, Larry Kart said:

My memory, if I remember correctly,  is that DeVaux's focus in his book on Coleman Hawkins was excessive. Yes, Hawkins led one of the first bop-flavored recording dates, and his openness to the new music in choice of sideman and tunes was a fact, and that such an eminent figure was simpatico with the new music was important socially so to speak, but this affinity on his part toward bop was not manifested otherwise very much if at all (nor would it ever be) in any aspect of Hawkins' own playing, rhythmically or harmonically.

Yeah, that was my feeling as well.

Still, DeVaux shined light on how the presentation of the new music came about, which I found illuminating (somewhat), because those early bop records often had actual arrangements to go with them, and it was a good read to see "why and how" about that.

12 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Los Angeles:
- Central Avenue Sounds
 

YES!

[BillF]

10 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

this affinity on Hawkins' part toward bop was not manifested otherwise very much if at all (nor would it ever be) in any aspect of Hawkins' own playing, rhythmically or harmonically. 

What about the oft-repeated claim that if you played a Hawkins 33 rpm recording at 45 rpm, it sounded like Bird? This is how it sounded to me.

[JSngry]

5 minutes ago, BillF said:

What about the oft-repeated claim that if you played a Hawkins 33 rpm recording at 45 rpm, it sounded like Bird? This is how it sounded to me.

I've done that, and it is often true (enough) as it comes to note choices. not even close in phraseology, though.

But - it only holds true (to the extent as it does) after Hawk engged in bop. Yes, he was a quite advanced player harmonically, but there is more than what came to be known as "bop" than just harmony...the same holds true for Tatum, geez, that guy..certainly an influence and any thinking musician, but did he in anyway "birth" bop? No, right?

In many ways, it doesn't matter, it's all evolution of a social and musical culture. But calling a book "The Birth Of Bop" does not imply an evolutionary process, it implies something else, and as much as god knows I love Coleman Hawkins, and recognize him as one of the truest badasses ever, I would not in any way claim him to be responsible for the "birth" of "bop". More like a midwife, or perhaps even a dispenser of Pitosin. Definitely an ancestor, but a parent? Nah.

Besides...Don Byas.

Oh, it's not a book, but the liner notes on the old Onyx/Xanadu issues of period material are often every bit as entertaining and perhaps even more illuminating than books. Give a good writer the back of an LP and a small enough font, you can get some true gems.

[Brad]

I liked the Gitler books.

Jeff Gold’s book, Sittin’ In, gives a flavor of what the club scene was like.

The book was extensively discussed here.  I liked the book.  

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Brad

[Rabshakeh]

Thanks everyone!

[Quasimado]

8 hours ago, BillF said:

What about the oft-repeated claim that if you played a Hawkins 33 rpm recording at 45 rpm, it sounded like Bird? This is how it sounded to me.

Wasn't it Lester and Bird? I seem to remember doing that ...

[JSngry]

Hawk. It was a Leonard Feather stunt.

[Gheorghe]

My first book, decades ago was "Jazz Masters of the Forties". I found it in a bookstore in Basel, Switzerland in the 70´s. 
Most of the other books are name biografies, I have Dizzy´s autobiography, at least two books about Bird, that came out in the early 70´s, a book about Fats Navarro, a book about Bud, about Dex, one about Monk, so I have really some biographies about key figures of bop as well. 

[Jim Duckworth]

I like these first person accounts-puts me in mind of this classic covering the first decades of jazz: 

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, Gheorghe said:

My first book, decades ago was "Jazz Masters of the Forties". I found it in a bookstore in Basel, Switzerland in the 70´s. 
Most of the other books are name biografies, I have Dizzy´s autobiography, at least two books about Bird, that came out in the early 70´s, a book about Fats Navarro, a book about Bud, about Dex, one about Monk, so I have really some biographies about key figures of bop as well. 

 

"Jazz Masters of the 40s" remains a great book - much better IMO than the "Jazz Masters of the 50s" volume that picks out a dozen great names (well documented elsewhere anyway) to cover the "Masters of the 50s" theme n one swipe and that's that. (A bit of a letdown if you have read the 40s book first.) I find the 40s book to be rather more insightful - not least of all because Ira Gitler does not stop with the #1 exponent on each instrument but also gives due coverage to the "others" who had their own impact and importance too. This provides a much fuller and more nuanced picture.

I'd consider individual biographies the next step AFTER publications on the jazz scene of a particular period.
"The Music and life of Theodore Fats Navarro" by Petersen and Rehak is well-done, though the biographical part is a bit skimpy. Probably due to lack of source material or accounts by those who knew him (probably the book was written way too late to be able to document more first-hand testimonials). On the other hand the analysis of his recordings leaves no stone unturned. And again, being able to sight read music notations and knowing your musical basics would help, so non-musicians (like me ) will find the reading somewhat rougher going than musicians with the appropriate training.
Browsing through the Dexter Gordon biography by Stan Britt now (it's been many years that I read it), it does cover all the ground, including more than a nod to his then-recent "Round Midnight" fame, but his European period seems to have been covered somewhat superficially. What marred the reading for me (and luckily is of no concern to the forumists here) was that the German translation of the book published by Hannibal in Vienna in 1990 (the direct way to obtaining the biography back in the early 90s here) is fairly stiff and often awkward - as if worded by an outsider looking in and not someone fully in tune with jazz and the jazz scene.

[Gheorghe]

16 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

 

"Jazz Masters of the 40s" remains a great book - much better IMO than the "Jazz Masters of the 50s" volume that picks out a dozen great names (well documented elsewhere anyway) to cover the "Masters of the 50s" theme n one swipe and that's that. (A bit of a letdown if you have read the 40s book first.) I find the 40s book to be rather more insightful - not least of all because Ira Gitler does not stop with the #1 exponent on each instrument but also gives due coverage to the "others" who had their own impact and importance too. This provides a much fuller and more nuanced picture.

I'd consider individual biographies the next step AFTER publications on the jazz scene of a particular period.
"The Music and life of Theodore Fats Navarro" by Petersen and Rehak is well-done, though the biographical part is a bit skimpy. Probably due to lack of source material or accounts by those who knew him (probably the book was written way too late to be able to document more first-hand testimonials). On the other hand the analysis of his recordings leaves no stone unturned. And again, being able to sight read music notations and knowing your musical basics would help, so non-musicians (like me ) will find the reading somewhat rougher going than musicians with the appropriate training.
Browsing through the Dexter Gordon biography by Stan Britt now (it's been many years that I read it), it does cover all the ground, including more than a nod to his then-recent "Round Midnight" fame, but his European period seems to have been covered somewhat superficially. What marred the reading for me (and luckily is of no concern to the forumists here) was that the German translation of the book published by Hannibal in Vienna in 1990 (the direct way to obtaining the biography back in the early 90s here) is fairly stiff and often awkward - as if worded by an outsider looking in and not someone fully in tune with jazz and the jazz scene.

oh yeah, "Hannibal Books" in Vienna ..... I know they translated a lot of stuff, but I already had the original editions in english. 

I can understand your point about some rougher reading for non-musicians. It can be vice versa also: I have some individual biographies in German , I think it was "Oreos Press" like let´s say "Dizzy Gillespie-His Live, His Music, His Records" or same with Mingus. I wish I could have written those books and try to make a bridge between Listeners/Music Lovers and Musicans/musically trained people so it would cover both different kinds of listening to music. 
The Mingus Author obviously was not a musician, because I think he didn´t hear, that different titles (and Mingus often changed titles) still are the same tune or at least the same chords. 

But I would like to understand better how non musically trained jazzfans listen to a record or a live thing: Do they more listen to the whole thing and the "mood" or "rhythm" of a piece, somehow in that manner ? 

If I listen to a record I like, I really enjoy it and it makes me glad, but as well I hear in what key they play, and hear exactly where they are, how the structure of the tune is, if it´s chord progressions of a standard tune or if it´s some other number of bars or other chords. I mean, we don´t count bars, we don´t write down the chords, it is evident like colours or structures on a picture. 

So I really would like to get to know it from another point of view. 

Yes, Stan Britts Gordon Bio is very fine. It was written when Dex still was alive and I think the book ends with speculations, if he would return to playing and recording or not...

[Big Beat Steve]

3 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

But I would like to understand better how non musically trained jazzfans listen to a record or a live thing: Do they more listen to the whole thing and the "mood" or "rhythm" of a piece, somehow in that manner ? 

That would rather be a topic for a separate thread and would lead us off the subject of THIS thread.

I mentioned my caveats in this resepct nly because books that rely heavily on musical analysis involving transcriptions of solos and other finer points obviously require more musical background knowledge (and training?) to make full use of the contents than other books on the same subject that use a different approach. And I find this is an important aspect for would-be buyers of the books because readers' preferences and expectations differ widely so they should be aware of details like this beforehand.

[Gheorghe]

39 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

That would rather be a topic for a separate thread and would lead us off the subject of THIS thread.

I mentioned my caveats in this resepct nly because books that rely heavily on musical analysis involving transcriptions of solos and other finer points obviously require more musical background knowledge (and training?) to make full use of the contents than other books on the same subject that use a different approach. And I find this is an important aspect for would-be buyers of the books because readers' preferences and expectations differ widely so they should be aware of details like this beforehand.

I can understand that very well, with "readers´ preferences and expectations..... I also have books that are too much for me. Especially if it´s more about social aspects and very little about the music or the live of the artists. 
I think I have two of them , one is about Mingus and is titled "The Angry Baron" I think but I tried to read it and gave up.
Same with a book about Bud Powell, I forgot the author, but there is mostly social studies about population during that generation and so....
 

[BillF]

28 minutes ago, Gheorghe said:

I can understand that very well, with "readers´ preferences and expectations..... I also have books that are too much for me. Especially if it´s more about social aspects and very little about the music or the live of the artists. 
I think I have two of them , one is about Mingus and is titled "The Angry Baron" I think but I tried to read it and gave up.
Same with a book about Bud Powell, I forgot the author, but there is mostly social studies about population during that generation and so....
 

I don't think I'll recommend you this one, Gheorghe. It seems to typify exactly the sort of jazz book you don't like. And, of course, it isn't about bebop, despite the cover photo!