ORNETTE COLEMAN - ROUND TRIP: ORNETTE COLEMAN ON BLUE NOTE

[dougcrates]

https://store.bluenote.com/collections/vinyl/products/ornette-coleman-round-trip-ornette-coleman-on-blue-note-6lp-box-set-blue-note-tone-poet-series

[hbbfam]

Will this be available as an HD download, CDs?

[Brad]

21 minutes ago, hbbfam said:

Will this be available as an HD download, CDs?

It’s a Tone Poet set. No CDs, no downloads. 

[Chuck Nessa]

Sigh!

Sign of the times with little to do with music - just commerce.

[Eric]

24 minutes ago, Brad said:

It’s a Tone Poet set. No CDs, no downloads. 

Well I know the Morgan set was strictly not a Tone Poet - but certainly of the same “build” - and digital versions there.  Seems odd they would turn away the dollars

Edited December 23, 2021 by Eric

[Chuck Nessa]

Maybe they are using Ornette as a marketing "test" for future projects. That's what these people do.

[romualdo]

Almost 70 mins of "Golden Circle" material will be missing

Why not go "Live At The Lighthouse" style and make it 8 LPs or more to fit the unreleased material

OTT & certainly of no interest to me

[Chuck Nessa]

Artifact marketing, not music.

[felser]

I like the cover picture, but not $230 worth.  Have every minute of the music on it already, and even if I didn't, could certainly find it at less than $38/album.  I'm totally with Chuck on this.

[sidewinder]

Well, these Tone Poet LPs can sound very good indeed so if you have a decent turntable and don’t already have the material on LP they can be an attractive proposition. Hence the wetting of oneself in anticipation going on in some quarters e.g. on SHF regarding this set.

Personally not interested as have all of them on LP.  £210 here in the UK and not available until end of Jan. Almost $ for £ - extortionate.

Edited December 23, 2021 by sidewinder

[RiRiIII]

My amzuk preorder had a 167 GBP price.

[JSngry]

9 hours ago, romualdo said:

Almost 70 mins of "Golden Circle" material will be missing

That would be a deal breaker for me, if I was going to be interested in the first place.

[mhatta]

They should release BN4210 & BN4211 properly (ESP's "Town Hall Concert" is incomplete) or "Complete Trio At The Golden Circle Stockholm" (there are lots of rejected/unissued takes).  I can dream, can't I?

[JSngry]

5 minutes ago, mhatta said:

They should release BN4210 & BN4211 properly (ESP's "Town Hall Concert" is incomplete) or "Complete Trio At The Golden Circle Stockholm" (there are lots of rejected/unissued takes).  I can dream, can't I?

That's more than a dream, it's actually totally reasonable.

 

9 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Artifact marketing, not music.

This.

[John L]

33 minutes ago, mhatta said:

They should release BN4210 & BN4211 properly (ESP's "Town Hall Concert" is incomplete) or "Complete Trio At The Golden Circle Stockholm" (there are lots of rejected/unissued takes).  I can dream, can't I?

There is apparently a treasure trove of unreleased vintage Ornette Coleman recordings with the estate.   Given that Ornette didn't seem to want them released when he was alive, perhaps the estate continues to honor that?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

4 minutes ago, John L said:

There is apparently a treasure trove of unreleased vintage Ornette Coleman recordings with the estate.   Given that Ornette didn't seem to want them released when he was alive, perhaps the estate continues to honor that?

If an artist or their estate owns the masters, they can stop it from coming out. Not true when the masters are owned by a label like Blue Note. The label can release it if they want.

[Brad]

13 hours ago, Eric said:

Well I know the Morgan set was strictly not a Tone Poet - but certainly of the same “build” - and digital versions there.  Seems odd they would turn away the dollars

It’s hard to understand their thinking.

Yes, it’s commerce but is that an evil concept. At least the albums are being made (although I’m sure there must be copies on Discogs). With the TPs they’ve established a name where it sells to a wide audience. I would have preferred to see the albums released individually but this way the set is guaranteed to sell.  It won’t surprise me if some buyers break up the set and sell the individual records at a premium. 

[JSngry]

The extra Golden Circle material has been out on CD already, so why not do a "dummy" cover for it, like Live At The Golden Circle Vols 3-4 or something like that, and include it in this box. Value added. Otherwise, it's leaving material/money on the table.

[clifford_thornton]

7 hours ago, mhatta said:

They should release BN4210 & BN4211 properly (ESP's "Town Hall Concert" is incomplete) or "Complete Trio At The Golden Circle Stockholm" (there are lots of rejected/unissued takes).  I can dream, can't I?

totally. there's no reason this material shouldn't be out already in one or two spots.

[John L]

7 hours ago, bresna said:

If an artist or their estate owns the masters, they can stop it from coming out. Not true when the masters are owned by a label like Blue Note. The label can release it if they want.

True.  I didn't have in mind the additional Golden Circle tracks owned by Blue Note.   But mhatta also mentioned the 1962 Town Hall Concert which I believe is in the hands of the Coleman estate along with a lot of other music. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by John L

[felser]

I doubt if BN owns any rights to the Town Hall material, as it was to be leased, was rejected, and some of it released on ESP-Disk a couple of years later.

[Chuck Nessa]

2 hours ago, felser said:

I doubt if BN owns any rights to the Town Hall material, as it was to be leased, was rejected, and some of it released on ESP-Disk a couple of years later.

As I understand it, BN made a deal with Ornette for the Town Hall material and actually made test pressings for 2 lps.  Then (somehow)  Bernard Stollman (operating as Ornette's manager) issued an ESP lp. Ornette recorded the Golden Circle material as a "make good" for the project. I think I have told this before.

 

[Guy Berger]

This thread is a good reminder for me to listen to the Golden Circle recordings again. Sooooo good.

[bertrand]

4 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

As I understand it, BN made a deal with Ornette for the Town Hall material and actually made test pressings for 2 lps.  Then (somehow)  Bernard Stollman (operating as Ornette's manager) issued an ESP lp. Ornette recorded the Golden Circle material as a "make good" for the project. I think I have told this before.

 

So there must have been more material on the 2-LP test pressings than on the single LP ESP disk. I wonder if any of the test pressings survived.

[Gheorghe]

All of Ornette´s material for BN is great, it´s interesting that the very first OC on BN I heard and purchased was Empty Foxhole, when I was a teenager, since it was the only avaiable acoustic Coleman at that time. 

But all BN´s including his sideman playing with JackieMcLean is much more conservative than other projects. I always call it "Free Jazz Light". Especially "Cry of Love" and the other from the same date "New York" or somehow like this, are very accessible OC releases. I like most "Garden of Souls".