Kenny G Explains Why He Did a Documentary About How Much People Hate Him

[Dan Gould]

If he didn't get the label "jazz" or was considered the highest-selling "jazz" artist of all time, I wouldn't give two craps about the G-Spot's music. But he does, and he is, so it does matter to me.

I will admit to not exactly paying attention to smooth/quiet storm/New Age, but I did have to play a Dave Koz hosted syndicated smooth jazz show before I hosted my own jazz show on Mello 105-Tallahassee. My impression of smooth does not gibe with what G does. There are warmed over r&b licks and funky rhythms in smooth, owing to its derivation in Grover/Sanborn. G-Spot doesn't play blues as far as I am concerned. He plays sickly sweet melodies that the masses find appealing, to their eternal shame and embarrassment, if they had any sense of either.

[Daniel A]

There seem to be clear cultural differences in between many wester countries in this area. In Sweden, smooth jazz has always been an even smaller niche than "real" jazz, and I have never knowingly heard Kenny G being played anywhere (shops, malls, restaurants). But I will admit not being able to recognize a Kenny G tune. 

[Rooster_Ties]

44 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

If he didn't get the label "jazz" or was considered the highest-selling "jazz" artist of all time, I wouldn't give two craps about the G-Spot's music. But he does, and he is, so it does matter to me.

That’s really the key to all this. Nobody here gives two shits about any of the top-10 best selling New Age artists, or who their audience is, or what their motivations are for liking said artist(s). It’s only because the term jazz is somehow ascribed to the G-man — when his music has virtually nothing to do with jazz.  Since arguably, he’s feather-light-weight smooth-jazz (at ‘best’) — basically a watered down version of an already watered down version of another genre — and therefore has little to nothing to do with jazz.

But it’s crap music that a bunch of ill-informed people (fans) mis-associate with “jazz” — and an even larger bunch of even MORE musically-illiterate mass of people (the general public) then THINK of as the first and maybe only name they know when they hear the term “jazz”.

 

There’s a good analogy in the documentary that it’s like if Michael Jordan and all the very best and upper echelon skilled players in the entire history of the NBA were barely known, and were all living hand to mouth (or maybe just scraping by, at best)… …and the ONLY people in basketball who ever got “paid!” big time (also in terms of cultural notaries) were the Harlem Globetrotters.

One of the music critics specifically analogizes Kenny G’s single-note held for 10 minutes (circular breathing) — with the “ball-spinning on their index finger” antics of the Globetrotters, and rolling the ball up one arm, over the shoulder, and back down the other, and the like. It’s all stuff ANY player in the NBA can do.

It’s cheesy, and maybe fun in the right context — but is it worthy of millions of dollars of remuneration?? — in some bizarro world where also the very best of the best in the NBA are barely getting by (if that even).

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Rooster_Ties

[JSngry]

27 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

It’s cheesy, and maybe fun in the right context — but is it worthy of millions of dollars of remuneration?? — in some bizarro world where also the very best of the best in the NBA are barely getting by (if that even).

It's worthy of whatever the market will give it. That's how the market works.

 

[Gheorghe]

I never really heard that "smooth jazz" but I´m used to other sounds of the alto. I like exactly what others don´t like as much: The sound of Jackie McLean.... some say they can´t stand it, I´m an addict of his sound. I like alto sounds like Jimmy Lions too, Ornette Coleman maybe less for his sound but for the whole thing.....
So my start for more "mellow sounding alto" seems to have been wrong....

I forgot Bird. Bird-McLean-Jimmy Lions .... somehow that way.....

[clifford_thornton]

4 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

 

I tend to agree with @Rooster_Ties on this one, but I haven't listened to any older Kenny G in a while. He may be marketed as smooth jazz but, at least from his more recent output, that music doesn't have much in common with SJ in the last 10 years or so. He definitely reminds me more of Yanni at the moment. 

Vangelis made some good records though, including one with Brian Odgers and Tony Oxley. Aphrodite's Child is pretty sweet as well. 

New Age is a pretty wide range, much of it pretty interesting, and I would hardly put Laraaji or Schawkie Roth in the same category as the G. 

Yanni and John Tesh are commercial lite music and that's another thing entirely. G is sorta in there and sorta not. 

[Rabshakeh]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

But lookie here, two words - George Howard. If you ever listen to Kenny G once, you have a cosmic obligation to listen to George Howard twice.

I've actually never listened to George Howard. What is/are the record with which to start. It is time to repay my cosmic creditors. 

3 hours ago, John L said:

In fact, Grover Washington Jr. is still really loved abroad, particularly in Africa, including among highly accomplished and serious musicians who weren't even born back in the day.   That is saying something. 

I have seen this referenced elsewhere, and found it interesting (not just because I really like Washington).

Is this your personal experience (in which case I'd be interested to hear) or is there an article or something available? 

I missed GW first time around due to not yet being alive. I first came across Washington's name in an article in the Guardian (I think) back in 2004 ish that was so incredibly supercilious and sneering about this 'pop jazz' that the masses enjoyed in the 1970s that it made me want to check him out.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Rabshakeh

[JSngry]

46 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

I've actually never listened to George Howard. What is/are the record with which to start. It is time to repay my cosmic creditors. 

This is the only one I really like:

I'll recommend it without qualification.

The others....pick one. You will hear music that the "jazz purists" scorned for all the same reasons they put on Kenny G, only you will hear that there is a real difference between the two.

Howard was kind of mentored by Grover, so...the best "smooth jazz" definitely has Black undertones/undertones/everywheretones...Howard's successful albums were no exception. By his own admission, he was not a "serious jazz player", but he wanted to play music that touched on the jazz ethos because he felt an affinity for it, wanted to be there, in terms of spirit and soul. You can judge for yourself how well he succeeded, but I give him full props for knowing himself and playing himself. And after he died and Kenny G took over as Smooth Soprano Hero...you know what they say about you don't miss your water....

I guess, try this one:

https://www.discogs.com/master/1475342-George-Howard-The-Very-Best-Of-George-Howard

 

[Rabshakeh]

9 minutes ago, JSngry said:

This is the only one I really like:

I'll recommend it without qualification.

The others....pick one. You will hear music that the "jazz purists" scorned for all the same reasons they put on Kenny G, only you will hear that there is a real difference between the two.

Howard was kind of mentored by Grover, so...the best "smooth jazz" definitely has Black undertones/undertones/everywheretones...Howard's successful albums were no exception. By his own admission, he was not a "serious jazz player", but he wanted to play music that touched on the jazz ethos because he felt an affinity for it, wanted to be there, in terms of spirit and soul. You can judge for yourself how well he succeeded, but I give him full props for knowing himself and playing himself. And after he died and Kenny G took over as Smooth Soprano Hero...you know what they say about you don't miss your water....

I guess, try this one:

https://www.discogs.com/master/1475342-George-Howard-The-Very-Best-Of-George-Howard

 

Thank you!

[John L]

3 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

 

I have seen this referenced elsewhere, and found it interesting (not just because I really like Washington).

Is this your personal experience (in which case I'd be interested to hear) or is there an article or something available? 

I missed GW first time around due to not yet being alive. I first came across Washington's name in an article in the Guardian (I think) back in 2004 ish that was so incredibly supercilious and sneering about this 'pop jazz' that the masses enjoyed in the 1970s that it made me want to check him out.

I have lived and worked in many different countries, including in East and West Africa.  I knew quite a number of musicians in Nigeria in particular, and was struck by how many cite Grover Washington as a primary influence and inspiration.   

Edited December 9, 2021 by John L

[Rabshakeh]

31 minutes ago, John L said:

I have lived and worked in many different countries, including in East and West Africa.  I knew quite a number of musicians in Nigeria in particular, and was struck by how many cite Grover Washington as a primary influence and inspiration.   

Thanks!

[jcam_44]

This all sounds like people hate Kenny G because he’s getting recognition he didn’t ask for. 

[Ken Dryden]

This guy asked for the attention, it didn’t come by accident.

[Rooster_Ties]

22 minutes ago, jcam_44 said:

This all sounds like people hate Kenny G because he’s getting recognition he didn’t ask for. 

It’s because his name has become synonymous with “jazz” for a relatively significant portion of the masses. Perhaps not a majority of a generation, but maybe a plurality.

Absent that, nobody would really care.

[jcam_44]

26 minutes ago, Ken Dryden said:

This guy asked for the attention, it didn’t come by accident.

How so? Because he made music that was marketed and made popular? My comment was in regards to being labelled jazz. Of course an artist wants to be popular. 

6 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

It’s because his name has become synonymous with “jazz” for a relatively significant portion of the masses. Perhaps not a majority of a generation, but maybe a plurality.

Absent that, nobody would really care.

That is giving the masses a lot of credit since you don't expect the masses to be well informed.

[Teasing the Korean]

10 minutes ago, jcam_44 said:

That is giving the masses a lot of credit since you don't expect the masses to be well informed.

Consumers don't have to be well-informed to exercise their buying power.  Perception is reality.  If Kenny G fans think they are buying jazz, then they are buying jazz.  Same with listeners who think the Star Wars theme is classical. C'est la vie.  

Edited December 10, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[jcam_44]

7 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Consumers don't have to be well-informed to exercise their buying power.  Perception is reality.  If a Kenny G fan thinks they are buying jazz, then they are buying jazz.  Same with listeners who think the Star Wars theme is classical. C'est la vie.  

So it again comes back to people hate Kenny G because he is popular and gets the notoriety that people believe others should get. 

[Dan Gould]

15 minutes ago, jcam_44 said:

So it again comes back to people hate Kenny G because he is popular and gets the notoriety that people believe others should get. 

You're skipping over the part about him playing an instrument associated with jazz and getting acclaim as a jazz musician.

If there existed a "smooth jazz" chart and recognition of "best selling smooth jazz artist" I wouldn't remotely give a shit about him and his music. 

[Teasing the Korean]

21 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

You're skipping over the part about him playing an instrument associated with jazz and getting acclaim as a jazz musician.

If there existed a "smooth jazz" chart and recognition of "best selling smooth jazz artist" I wouldn't remotely give a shit about him and his music. 

My favorite record store in the US has a very knowledgable jazz staff, and their jazz section is amazing.

They file Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass in the jazz section.  None of the employees would even remotely consider this music to be jazz.  But there he is, right alongside Albert Ayler and Cannonball Adderley.

Why do they file Herb in the jazz section?

Edited December 10, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[Dan Gould]

19 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

My favorite record store in the US has a very knowledgable jazz staff, and their jazz section is amazing.

They file Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass in the jazz section.  None of the employees would even remotely consider this music to be jazz.  But there he is, right alongside Albert Ayler and Cannonball Adderley.

Why do they file Herb in the jazz section?

I do not know why, clearly he belongs in the Founded a Label section, with Ray Charles.

[Teasing the Korean]

6 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

I do not know why, clearly he belongs in the Founded a Label section, with Ray Charles.

I don't know why either, but here's a guess:

It saves the staff wear and tear on the vocal cords from having to answer "Where's Herb Alpert?" every time a customer waddles over to the jazz section looking for him.

Perception is reality.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[JSngry]

44 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

It saves the staff wear and tear on the vocal cords from having to answer "Where's Herb Alpert?" every time a customer waddles over to the jazz section looking for him.

 

[jcam_44]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

You're skipping over the part about him playing an instrument associated with jazz and getting acclaim as a jazz musician.

If there existed a "smooth jazz" chart and recognition of "best selling smooth jazz artist" I wouldn't remotely give a shit about him and his music. 

That’s my point. He isn’t claiming he’s a jazz musician. Others are and by giving merit to everyone’s opinion he’s being dragged by people who “don’t give a shit about Kenny G” but clearly do. 

[Dan Gould]

24 minutes ago, jcam_44 said:

That’s my point. He isn’t claiming he’s a jazz musician. Others are and by giving merit to everyone’s opinion he’s being dragged by people who “don’t give a shit about Kenny G” but clearly do. 

I am sincerely wondering where it is that Kenny G has ever protested that he doesn't play jazz.  Where has he ever said "don't call my music jazz" or "I play instrumental pop" or  (as I frankly think his ego is big enough to say it) "Ain't no "jazz" label can hold me, bitches."

[Rooster_Ties]

39 minutes ago, jcam_44 said:

That’s my point. He isn’t claiming he’s a jazz musician. Others are and by giving merit to everyone’s opinion he’s being dragged by people who “don’t give a shit about Kenny G” but clearly do. 

It’s annoying as can be to know that — for many — Kenny G is the “face” of jazz.

That may or not may have anything to do with Kenny G himself — but never the less, it’s a widespread inaccuracy which pervades (perhaps less than it once did, but it really was a big thing 10 and 20 years ago).

Years ago I had coworkers I barely knew (when I worked for a very large company), who assumed I liked Kenny G because I liked jazz — and/or who assumed Kenny G was emblematic of jazz (because he came up in conversation from time to time).

It’s annoying, especially if people are silently making those assumptions about my tastes — but not giving me any reason to correct them.