Ratliff: John Coltrane and the Essence of 1961

[Mark Stryker]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/11/03/john-coltrane-village-vanguard-1961/

[ghost of miles]

The 1997 Vanguard box-set was one of the most exciting new-release events of my life.  Iirc it came out on Sept 23, Trane’s birthday. The record store I worked at didn’t receive our expected shipment that day, so I bought it at another store in downtown Bloomington and spent the entire evening listening to it. I still listen to it all the way through every several years; might have to start again tonight after reading Ratliff’s article.

[JSngry]

3 hours ago, Mark Stryker said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/11/03/john-coltrane-village-vanguard-1961/

Ok, but...1961 was also Sun Ra's first full year in New York. Recorded documentation is sparse, but on the Savoy record, you can hear Gilmore really doing his thing on October 10, 1961.

 

[ghost of miles]

Shameless self-promotion of a previous Night Lights show devoted to this very year:

1961: New Jazz Frontier

Jsngry, thanks for the reminder of that 1961 Sun Ra outing--I actually picked up a BMG Record Club copy (!) of that CD many years ago.  Will give it a fresh listen this evening.

Edited November 4, 2021 by ghost of miles

[JSngry]

Gilmore, June 14, 1960

I'm not one of those glib meme-ers who will say that Coltrance "stole" from Gilmore, that's not how this music woprks (business, yess, music, no). But if were going to talk about Yoko Ono and relatively unformed Amiri Baraka (who picked up on Ra pretty early once Ra got to NYC) and stuff like that, that's ignorant.

But it's not ignorant, in fact, it's probably necessary, to note that Coltrane had know about - and known - both Ra & Gilmore from Ra's Chicago days. And how this music definitely does work is that when you hear a "kindred spirit, somebody whose ideas about approaching the instrumen - and thus, the music - it is only natural to form a relationship, to keep in touch, to pay attention, if for nothing morew than reassurance that what you're doing is not some wild-eyed psycho-break, that it's really a valid thing to thing about and to do.

None of this stuff occurs in a vacuum, and Ratlif fills some of it, but not all. If he's looking at "society", yeah, but that's a BIG word, "society" is.

17 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Shameless self-promotion of a previous Night Lights show devoted to this very year:

1961: New Jazz Frontier

Jsngry, thanks for the reminder of that 1961 Sun Ra outing--I actually picked up a BMG Record Club copy (!) of that CD many years ago.  Will give it a fresh listen this evening.

Ra did himself no favors in this regard by his delayed release over multiple LPs over many years, but suffice it to say that by the time 1961 hit, he had already been there (not literally, although...who's to say?!?!?!?!)

One does oneself a HUGE favor by constructing a chronological collection of Ra's Chicago work, using this indespinible website: http://campber.people.clemson.edu/sunra.html

Put all of those things back into original recording order, THEN draw some conclusions about who was doing what, when, and how.

[ghost of miles]

26 minutes ago, JSngry said:

One does oneself a HUGE favor by constructing a chronological collection of Ra's Chicago work, using this indespinible website: http://campber.people.clemson.edu/sunra.html

Put all of those things back into original recording order, THEN draw some conclusions about who was doing what, when, and how.

That website is amazing--pretty sure it was around and that I utilized it back in 2007 when I did the Night Lights Second Magic City: Sun Ra In Chicago program, but a glance at the link today reveals that it's been updated considerably.  I also picked up the Sun Ra Transparency box set from a fellow board member a couple years back, but have yet to delve into it.  What was your ultimate verdict on the recent Sun Ra's Chicago: Afrofuturism and the City book?

[JSngry]

27 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

That website is amazing--pretty sure it was around and that I utilized it back in 2007 when I did the Night Lights Second Magic City: Sun Ra In Chicago program, but a glance at the link today reveals that it's been updated considerably.  I also picked up the Sun Ra Transparency box set from a fellow board member a couple years back, but have yet to delve into it.  What was your ultimate verdict on the recent Sun Ra's Chicago: Afrofuturism and the City book?

The transparency set is quite useful, if hardly ever (but sometimes, on occasion!) canonical. I'm compiling that into Ra-only form as well. The 1948-49 stuff makes for a really, uh, interesting look at a lonely man making (mostly) "customer-facing music". And then there's a live set with Gilmore that needs to see a real release somehow. Put it up on the Bandcamp or something. Otherwise, a lot of "for collectors only" type stuff, mostly, but count me in on that.

That book is highly recommended, imo, despite it's academia-ic wonkspeak. Lots of valuable data in there, LOTS.

What I want to call out here is that John Gilmore was a seriously important and great tenor player who made the decisions he made in terms of career with eyes wide open, I do believe. It's not like he's going to be erased (unless Sun Ra is), but he himself...attention should be paid, at every step of the way. And consideration should be given to the possibility that those who seek Earthly Recognition think that that's something worthy seeking, and that those who don't...maybe don't.

 

[ghost of miles]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

That book is highly recommended, imo, despite it's academia-ic wonkspeak. Lots of valuable data in there, LOTS.

Oh so agreed!