Д.Д. Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, David Ayers said: I wonder why the very idea of this thread arouses objections? Well, because this is not a distinctive factor that has any effect on the music - and, hopefully, on a possibility to develop a "career" as a musician (nowadays, at least). Because many female musicians would strongly object to being referred to as "female musicians". Because there is no "female jazz". I imagine if you ask Joëlle Léandre about plying female jazz you'd get smacked on your head with a double bass. To quote from Shayna Dulberger's interview that Clifford linked to above: "I don’t play because I am female and my music is not about being female". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 Here’s what Léandre has actually said “I was looking to create new music, my music, in my century, plus I am a woman, not a man. I had to find my music, my feeling, my sounds. I don’t want to play like a man. Men have examples to look up to, not only in music, but as a woman, we don’t really have big figures on podiums. The only figures in front of me were men. I had to find myself, as a woman, in a creative way. All the world is built by men, almost everything. Women have to do somethings by themselves.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 14 minutes ago, David Ayers said: Here’s what Léandre has actually said “I was looking to create new music, my music, in my century, plus I am a woman, not a man. I had to find my music, my feeling, my sounds. I don’t want to play like a man. Men have examples to look up to, not only in music, but as a woman, we don’t really have big figures on podiums. The only figures in front of me were men. I had to find myself, as a woman, in a creative way. All the world is built by men, almost everything. Women have to do somethings by themselves.” Touché! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 26 minutes ago, David Ayers said: Here’s what Léandre has actually said “I was looking to create new music, my music, in my century, plus I am a woman, not a man. I had to find my music, my feeling, my sounds. I don’t want to play like a man. Men have examples to look up to, not only in music, but as a woman, we don’t really have big figures on podiums. The only figures in front of me were men. I had to find myself, as a woman, in a creative way. All the world is built by men, almost everything. Women have to do somethings by themselves.” Yeah, I know this interview. She was talking specifically about when she started back in early 80's, forty years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 43 minutes ago, Д.Д. said: Yeah, I know this interview. She was talking specifically about when she started back in early 80's, forty years ago. I see. So where does she express the views which you attribute to her? Why stifle this topic? There are currently active record labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women. The most significant exception is Intakt. I wonder what they might make of this discussion? I'm not even asking people to embrace feminism and feminist cultural theory (though I think they should), I just asked which women in jazz people find interesting - whether currently active or from forty years ago - or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 44 minutes ago, David Ayers said: I see. So where does she express the views which you attribute to her? Why stifle this topic? There are currently active record labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women. The most significant exception is Intakt. I wonder what they might make of this discussion? I'm not even asking people to embrace feminism and feminist cultural theory (though I think they should), I just asked which women in jazz people find interesting - whether currently active or from forty years ago - or both. I agree with you but I think you're setting the bar too low at "labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women" as I can think of several that do just off the top of my head - Leo, Rogue Art, Relative Pitch, Clean Feed, ECM. I agree about Intakt. I think a more realistic expectation would be to ask which labels have a significant representation of women as leaders in their catalogue - "significant", I'll leave to others to debate. Somewhere near 50/50 would be nice as an aspiration, wouldn't it? And no, I'm not suggesting quotas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 Tiring discussion. From my point of view, if you want to get suggestions on good jazz played by women, stay in. Otherwise you can easily skip this thread. Not particularly addressed to the last poster, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 5 hours ago, mjazzg said: I agree with you but I think you're setting the bar too low at "labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women" as I can think of several that do just off the top of my head - Leo, Rogue Art, Relative Pitch, Clean Feed, ECM. I agree about Intakt. I think a more realistic expectation would be to ask which labels have a significant representation of women as leaders in their catalogue - "significant", I'll leave to others to debate. Somewhere near 50/50 would be nice as an aspiration, wouldn't it? And no, I'm not suggesting quotas. Yes some labels have moved on this. By opportunities I was thinking leader or duets.These UK researchers produce some depressing analysis and statistics but suggest that the largely older male audience for jazz can influence the culture with their concert attendance and purchases - which is what I’m going to try. See how long I last! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 8 hours ago, David Ayers said: I see. So where does she express the views which you attribute to her? Why stifle this topic? There are currently active record labels which have rarely or never given opportunities to women. The most significant exception is Intakt. I wonder what they might make of this discussion? I'm not even asking people to embrace feminism and feminist cultural theory (though I think they should), I just asked which women in jazz people find interesting - whether currently active or from forty years ago - or both. Add Relative Pitch. Maybe almost as many woman as men! So many creative forces!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted October 18, 2021 Report Share Posted October 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, Steve Reynolds said: Add Relative Pitch. Maybe almost as many woman as men! So many creative forces!! It's in my list above, stands out for the number of female artists represented I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 I would add Barbara Dennerlein and Sharel Cassity. Many great players have come forth from Sherrie Maricle's Diva Jazz Orchestra: Ingrid Jensen and Claire Daly, among many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 I’m going to add Silke Eberhard. Unfailingly interesting, immersed in classic modernists (especially Dolphy) but very much her own voice. She’s been mentioned on the board a couple of times but I’d have thought she’d have a wide appeal here in terms of people’s tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabshakeh Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 20 minutes ago, David Ayers said: I’m going to add Silke Eberhard. Unfailingly interesting, immersed in classic modernists (especially Dolphy) but very much her own voice. She’s been mentioned on the board a couple of times but I’d have thought she’d have a wide appeal here in terms of people’s tastes. Definitely. I second that recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 "Silke" is about the coolest name ever. Is it pronounced "Silky"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, JSngry said: "Silke" is about the coolest name ever. Is it pronounced "Silky"? https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEV_en&q=wie+spricht+man+silke+aus&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRozi3w8sc9YSm9SWtOXmPU4OINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLkYglJLcoV4pRi52ItzszJTrViUWJKSeVZxCpZnpmqUFxQlJmcUaKQm5inAJZWSCwtBgB8sYafWAAAAA&pron_lang=de&pron_country=ES&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig_9G0stnzAhUIhlwKHfiADJgQ9tEEegQIAxAM&biw=1920&bih=880&dpr=1&safe=active&ssui=on Silke is a Germanic female given name originally derived from Latin. There are two separate meanings: Silke is a Frisian diminutive form of Cecilia, from the Roman family name Caecilius. Silke is also a German diminutive form of Celia, meaning "heavenly", from the Latin "caelum" meaning "heaven". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 40 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said: Definitely. I second that recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 33 minutes ago, jlhoots said: OK all this love, so which albums? I remember listening to a Dolphy album years ago which didn't grab me then by Potsa Lotsa or similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted October 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 1 hour ago, mjazzg said: OK all this love, so which albums? I remember listening to a Dolphy album years ago which didn't grab me then by Potsa Lotsa or similar There are four terrific trio albums - two most recent on Intakt, two earlier on Jazzwerkstatt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, David Ayers said: There are four terrific trio albums - two most recent on Intakt, two earlier on Jazzwerkstatt. There's also one on Leo - Mingus, Mingus, Mingus She's recorded with some good piano players too - Dave Burrell, Ulrich Gumpert. 17 minutes ago, David Ayers said: Edited October 20, 2021 by jlhoots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted October 20, 2021 Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 Thank you both. I'd spotted the trio albums as possibles so will duly investigate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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