More Favorites: Reflections on Jazz in the 1980s

[Steve Reynolds]

17 minutes ago, colinmce said:

No surprise, I agree with Steve. I feel almost the exact opposite. I think the 90s was a time of great flourishment across different styles in modern jazz, I never get tired of digging though that body of music and finding more-- in fact next to the 60s I would rate the 90s as a favorite period for this music. What I would say myself is that these tributaries began to dry up as the new century dawned; I think the 2000s period sounds more like what you describe; a lot of the great players and ensembles of the 90s split up or moved on and the newer generation that came to flower about 10 years ago was just getting their feet under them.

More highlights from the era I would mention (also must say that Gayle and Ware are two of my favorite musicians ever-- I listen to them as much as Ayler or Sonny or Coltrane):

Bill Dixon's albums with William Parker, Barry Guy, and Tony Oxley
Cecil Taylor's FMP recordings
Horace Tapscott - The Dark Tree & Arabesque albums
Marilyn Crispell on Music & Arts
Clusone 3
Myra Melford's trio and various groups
John Lindberg on Black Saint
all the great music on eremite from Glenn Spearman, William Parker, Raphe Malik, Jemeel Moondoc, Denis Charles, TEST, Marco Eneidi et al
Dave Douglas' incredible Soul Note quintets
Ellery Eskelin/Andrea Parkins/Jim Black on hatOLOGY
Don Byron's Tuskeegee Experiments
Thomas Chapin's Knitting Factory albums
Franz Koglmann on hatART
Matthew Shipp's early music
Thomas Borgmann Trio
the Wobbly Rail label
Rudiger Carl/COWWS on FMP
King Ubu Orchestru 
Sam Rivers Rivbea All-Star Orchestra on RCA
Mal Waldron on Soul Note & Tutu
The Herbie Nichols Project
Ab Baars Trio

etc. etc!


 

This!!!

Emphasis on Denis Charles, Eskelin-Parkins-Black, Clusone 3, Thomas Chapin, Tapscott

eremite records was a force / 2 Days in April with Fred, Kidd, William & Hamid

seeing that band circa year 2000 was incredible. 

add What We Live / the 2 CD’s with Dave Douglas & Wadada Leo Smith

Even The Sounds Shine, baby!!

 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Steve Reynolds

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

I agree with all of this. You have named my favourites from this period.

The warmed over free jazz was a reference to the Charles Gayle cult in particular, but also to later David S Ware, who I never found particularly convincing.

Specifically which records are you referring to here?

Absolutely anything by Musician. The gig I saw at the Vortex was one of the wonders of the world

7 minutes ago, Steve Reynolds said:

This!!!

Emphasis on Denis Charles, Eskelin-Parkins-Black, Clusone 3, Thomas Chapin, Tapscott

add What We Live / the 2 CD’s with Dave Douglas & Wadada Leo Smith

Even The Sounds Shine, baby!!

 

 

Yeah, me too.

All of the suggestions by Steve and colinmce, except for Gayle who I was never convinced by. Ware on the other hand, completely convincing.

Edited September 27, 2022 by mjazzg

[Steve Reynolds]

other great shows 

One of the Eskelin/Parkins/Black shows at Tonic was so beyond incredible. Maybe 1999. 

Berne/Gress/Rainey maybe 98 or 99 stunning

Drake with Mat Maneri & Rob Brown / stunning 

DKV on 3/27/2001 / unbelievable 

Evan Parker, Berne, Gress & Mark Sanders May 2001 at Knitting Factory / set 2 !!!!

Trio 3 Knitting Factory

Dunmall with Rogers & Norton knitting factory in a small room!!!!!! With bagpipes!!!

[colinmce]

I hear this a lot about Ware, which I find a little hard to understand, but I would recommend reading him talk about the process behind his playing and composing, he was very eloquent and thorough on the subject. There was a lot more going on in that music than meets the eye; to me at least the Coltrane Quartet comparisons don't even make sense on their face. Shipp plays like no one else, Dickey & Ibarra play like no one else, and Parker certainly does not play like Jimmy Garrison. Dimensions and extensions! They were cutting a new path through an old forest.

[mjazzg]

12 minutes ago, Steve Reynolds said:

 

Dunmall with Rogers & Norton knitting factory in a small room!!!!!! With bagpipes!!!

I often envy the great shows you see/have seen but this one is just unfair!!

[Rabshakeh]

I am not going to argue with any of the above! You are all referencing great records and great groups.

But it was noticeably confined to one part of the jazz ecosystem. I think that, judged from a wider perspective, jazz as a whole was very boring at that time (1987 - 2007). It was the time of Redman Jr, and Brad Mehldau, and ECM's dominance.

[Steve Reynolds]

1 minute ago, Rabshakeh said:

I am not going to argue with any of the above! You are all referencing great records and great groups.

But it was noticeably confined to one part of the jazz ecosystem. I think that, judged from a wider perspective, jazz as a whole was very boring at that time (1987 - 2007). It was the time of Redman Jr, and Brad Mehldau, and ECM's dominance.

Agree / a bunch of us were on this board and JCS during this time railing about the dross that was and still mostly is “mainstream” jazz. 
 

long live Jazz Corner & Jazz Central Station

 

Alive in the House of Saints, baby 

[Rabshakeh]

17 minutes ago, colinmce said:

I hear this a lot about Ware, which I find a little hard to understand, but I would recommend reading him talk about the process behind his playing and composing, he was very eloquent and thorough on the subject. There was a lot more going on in that music than meets the eye; to me at least the Coltrane Quartet comparisons don't even make sense on their face. Shipp plays like no one else, Dickey & Ibarra play like no one else, and Parker certainly does not play like Jimmy Garrison. Dimensions and extensions! They were cutting a new path through an old forest.

I think that my problem with Ware was mostly with Ware, and it wasn't a big problem. His stuff was original enough, and it did work. I owned quite a bit of his stuff at one time, although I've since unloaded it all. I think I liked Shipp and Ibarra most, looking back at it.

[Steve Reynolds]

8 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I often envy the great shows you see/have seen but this one is just unfair!!

Tonight Tomeka Reid with Mary!!!, Jason Roebke & Tomas Fujiwara!!

you also see stuff I will never see:)

[kh1958]

3 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Another big fan of Code Violations.

What happened to Thomas? Haven't seen his name mentioned for years

My last Gary Thomas sighting was in 2007, when I went to see a group led by  guitarist Paul Bollenback at a concert at the University of Texas at Dallas; he had Gary Thomas on tenor saxophone in the group.

[danasgoodstuff]

Gary Thomas retreated into academia, where presumably he does a great job but still, he's missed.  The late '80s to early '90s were IMHO a fertile period which saw among other things the reemergence and triumph of Sonny Sharrock.  His Ask the Ages is for the ages.  It also saw John Scofield, Bill Frisell, Geri Allen, and many others doing great work.

[Д.Д.]

38 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Gary Thomas retreated into academia, where presumably he does a great job but still, he's missed.  

Where is he teaching now? He used to be at Johns Hopkins, but the JHU webpage does not list him among the faculty any longer: https://peabody.jhu.edu/academics/instruments-areas-of-study/jazz/ 

[danasgoodstuff]

*Masterclass with Gary Thomas Jazz Saxophone « F. Ludwig Diehn School of Music Calendar (odu.edu) this is the most recent thing I've found and apparently it was as an adjunct since he's not on their regular faculty that I can find.

[Peter Friedman]

On 9/27/2022 at 0:56 PM, Rabshakeh said:

, jazz as a whole was very boring at that time (1987 - 2007). It was the time of Redman Jr, and Brad Mehldau, and ECM's dominance.

This is in my view amazingly  wrong. I have in my collection a large number of "mainstream" type recordings from that time period that are wonderful.

Just to give one example,  On my shelves are recordings made between 1987 - 2007 by outstanding jazz piano players such as Mulgrew Miller, John Hicks, Tommy Flanagan, Barry Harris, Hank Jones, Tete Montoliu, Ray Bryant, Steve Kuhn, George Cables, Junior Mance, Kenny Barron and  McCoy Tyner.

And that was just jazz piano recordings.

 

[kh1958]

3 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

This is in my view amazingly  wrong. I have in my collection a large number of "mainstream" type recordings from that time period that are wonderful.

Just to give one example,  On my shelves are recordings made between 1987 - 2007 by outstanding jazz piano players such as Mulgrew Miller, John Hicks, Tommy Flanagan, Barry Harris, Hank Jones, Tete Montoliu, Ray Bryant, Steve Kuhn, George Cables, Junior Mance, Kenny Barron and  McCoy Tyner.

And that was just jazz piano recordings.

 

Completely agree with you.

[JSngry]

At this point in time, I have no opinion. I have a lot of good records from all kinds of years. And if I try to think to hard about what year they're from...ouch, my head hurts!

#whinybabywhinybabywahwahwah

[Rabshakeh]

Pleased to see that everyone disagrees.  Although I note that none is standing up for Mssrs. Mehldau or Redman, at least.

[mjazzg]

Just now, Rabshakeh said:

Pleased to see that everyone disagrees.  Although I note that none is standing up for Mssrs. Mehldau or Redman, at least.

I'll stand up just a bit for Mehldau. I enjoyed a number of his trio albums and a couple of concerts. He took/takes himself a bit too seriously, definitely. It has to be said that I haven't listened to anything by him in ages and a number of his albums have just been culled from my shelves. So it's not a wholehearted defence...

Joshua, someone else will have to step up.

[Ken Dryden]

27 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

Pleased to see that everyone disagrees.  Although I note that none is standing up for Mssrs. Mehldau or Redman, at least.

I can't remember the last time I played a Joshua Redman CD, while it's been awhile for Brad Mehldau as well. Neither of them have made a major impression on me as composers, though I think that Mehldau is the more creative of the two as an improviser and arranger.

My only chance to hear Brad Mehldau in person was when he was touring in Christopher Hollday's quartet circa the late 1980s. 

[JSngry]

A lot of people get/got the benefit of the doubt when they appear to have potential to keep developing and growing. 

And then. If they don't...who cares? 

[HutchFan]

Three albums that I posted yesterday:

- Jackie McLean Quintet featuring Rene McLean - Dynasty (Triloka, 1990)
- Carla Bley - Fleur Carnivore (WATT/ECM, 1989)
- Don Pullen - New Beginnings (Blue Note, 1989) - with Gary Peacock & Tony Williams

Tony's drumming on the Pullen trio date is the bees knees. 

But all three have much to recommend them, IMO. 

What say you?

 

 

 

On 9/28/2022 at 5:14 PM, Ken Dryden said:

I can't remember the last time I played a Joshua Redman CD, while it's been awhile for Brad Mehldau as well. Neither of them have made a major impression on me as composers, though I think that Mehldau is the more creative of the two as an improviser and arranger.

My favorite Mehldau records are probably the two that he made with Pat Metheny.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by HutchFan

[JSngry]

That's a 3-for-3 outing in my book! 

[danasgoodstuff]

New Beginnings I remember liking quite a bit, largely because of Tony.  And I thought it was well worth getting on CD for the extra material.

[felser]

I do like that McLean a lot,  and the Pullen.  Carla Bley is hit/miss for me, not sure if I know this particular title.

[kh1958]

Like the Pullen a lot; haven't heard the other two.