Wynton Marsalis says rap and hip-hop are ‘more damaging than a statue of Robert E. Lee

[Hardbopjazz]

From the Washington Post. 
“My words are not that powerful. I started saying in 1985 I don’t think we should have a music talking about niggers and bitches and hoes. It had no impact. I’ve said it. I’ve repeated it. I still repeat it. To me that’s more damaging than a statue of Robert E. Lee.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/05/22/jazz-musician-wynton-marsalis-says-rap-and-hip-hop-are-more-damaging-than-a-statue-of-robert-e-lee/?fbclid=IwAR0Ntw7tB1CkTLY2Uv-gnkl6uDVBSshD8CJ2_3HtGwRElMMf-a7zpv3Ye5I

 

[Teasing the Korean]

L7, baby, L7.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

21 minutes ago, Hardbopjazz said:

From the Washington Post. 
“My words are not that powerful. I started saying in 1985 I don’t think we should have a music talking about niggers and bitches and hoes. It had no impact. I’ve said it. I’ve repeated it. I still repeat it. To me that’s more damaging than a statue of Robert E. Lee.”

Wynton better avoid the comedy clubs while he is at it. The 'N' word is slung far and wide on those stages. In a way, I agree with Wynton about the use of this word by blacks. If they truly want it to go away, stop using it as a euphemism for friend.

But fuck those Robert E Lee statues Wynton.

[Dub Modal]

That article is from 2018. But no doubt that broad brush he loves still gets heavy use. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Dub Modal

[sgcim]

When is WM gonna realize that we're living in the Post-Truth Era?

[Dub Modal]

Just now, sgcim said:

When is WM gonna realize that we're living in the Post-Truth Era?

What does that mean, “post-truth era”? That statues of confederate generals/soldiers that were erected via the efforts of white supermacists should remain standing because they represent some historical “truth”? Or does it mean something else? 

[Teasing the Korean]

23 minutes ago, bresna said:

 In a way, I agree with Wynton about the use of this word by blacks. If they truly want it to go away, stop using it as a euphemism for friend.

Changing the meaning of a word is completely legitimate.  Language is living.

[medjuck]

27 minutes ago, bresna said:

Wynton better avoid the comedy clubs while he is at it. The 'N' word is slung far and wide on those stages. 

 

By white people? 

[sgcim]

4 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

What does that mean, “post-truth era”? That statues of confederate generals/soldiers that were erected via the efforts of white supermacists should remain standing because they represent some historical “truth”? Or does it mean something else? 

Something else.

[John L]

What I object to is the rejection of all of Hip Hop over lyrical content that is only in some Hip Hop.   Should we reject all jazz if we don't like Dixieland?

[JSngry]

So Wynton won't be doing no Rudy Ray Moore tributes or anything like that, right?

 

[Rooster_Ties]

21 minutes ago, JSngry said:

So Wynton won't be doing no Rudy Ray Moore tributes or anything like that, right?

 

LOL 

[Gheorghe]

Time flies. Wynton is now as old as Dizzy was when I saw him first (1978 or so). And Wynton was the "wunderkind" of 1980 or so, with Blakey, and still very fine with VSOP II in 1983. 

But I don´t know what he really did after that, only sometimes read his commentaries as he pretends to tell the world what is jazz and what not. 

But Wynton a living legend who changed music ? Like Diz ? Not at all. 

He is always scheduled in Europ with that Lincoln Orchestra or something like that. I never heard it. 

[BillF]

3 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Time flies. Wynton is now as old as Dizzy was when I saw him first (1978 or so). And Wynton was the "wunderkind" of 1980 or so, with Blakey, and still very fine with VSOP II in 1983. 

But I don´t know what he really did after that, only sometimes read his commentaries as he pretends to tell the world what is jazz and what not. 

But Wynton a living legend who changed music ? Like Diz ? Not at all. 

He is always scheduled in Europ with that Lincoln Orchestra or something like that. I never heard it. 

I heard the Lincoln Center Orchestra on tour in Manchester about 3 years ago. Completely lacking in fire despite the presence of people like Ryan Kisor and Ted Nash.

But Wynton can still play jazz, as evidenced by this video from Smalls during the pandemic. (His millionaire's suit looks really out of place at Smalls!)

 

[Rabshakeh]

Marsalis did a series of teaching videos from his bleak looking music room over lockdown. They were surprisingly poor for such a professional talker, which is a shame, because I was so starved of entertainment at that point that I'd have watched Marsalis making a cup of tea at that point.

The rap and hip hop thing is an old talking point and Marsalis and his ilk need to move on. In 2021 rap music (no longer just hip hop) is not so much a genre as it is just popular music, full stop. As far as I can tell, the primary lyrical subject matter these days is just depression and teenaged angst. The old gangster rappers spend most of their time posting confused Facebook memes on Twitter. I doubt Marsalis has listened to rap music since 1994, which might explain why his talking points are as stale as his views on jazz history.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Rabshakeh

[Kevin Bresnahan]

On 9/10/2021 at 5:11 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

Changing the meaning of a word is completely legitimate.  Language is living.

So you are OK with that word continuing to refer to black people? Because that's what many black comedians are doing.

 

[Teasing the Korean]

4 hours ago, bresna said:

So you are OK with that word continuing to refer to black people? Because that's what many black comedians are doing.

Banning a word gives it power.  If black persons want to re-contextualize a word that once was used as a weapon against them, I am in no position to tell them to do otherwise.  

Edited September 13, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[JSngry]

I dunno, I find that African-Americans always welcome White Folks telling them what they're doing wrong with their own culture. Because, you know, they obviously need us to do that for them.

[danasgoodstuff]

False dichotomy, really basic logical fallacy.  And that's just the start.  And a distraction from whatever it is he's trying to say about why he dislikes (some?) rap.

[John L]

13 hours ago, JSngry said:

I dunno, I find that African-Americans always welcome White Folks telling them what they're doing wrong with their own culture. Because, you know, they obviously need us to do that for them.