The 1967 Stanley Turrentine sessions with medium-sized bands

[Shrdlu]

Stanley Turrentine recorded four sessions in 1967 backed by a medium-size group arranged by Duke Pearson. The dates are February 17, June 9, June 23 and July 28. 

There is some excellent playing and arranging on these and they are well worth a listen. I won't clutter up this site with the listings: they can easily be seen on the Blue Note discography site. The purpose of this post is to recommend the music, and to suggest the easiest way to get it on CDs. The bands include the usual suspects from the New York City area (Jerry Dodgion, Pepper Adams etc.) and have a nice sound. The arrangements are much more than functional, and have tone colors such as flute and bass clarinet, rather than the bog standard four trumpets, four trombones, five saxophones and rhythm section. Stanley is very comfortable and blows many fine choruses.

None of this music was issued upfront, no doubt because of Alfred Lion's retirement that year. The first appearance of any of it was on a 2 LP set that Duke Pearson put out in 1975. It has some (but not all) of the material from the February 17 and June 23 sessions, jumbled together. I have a Rice Krispie copy of that set (optimistically described by the seller as "VG+"). For me, this is not satisfactory, especially because I like to hear tracks in session order.

Here is the best way I can think of to get the material on CD. All but three items are obtainable.

February 17: Get "New Time Shuffle", Blue Note (J) TOCJ-50277, (2012) ,or the U.S. CD "A Bluish Bag", Blue Note 0946 3 85193 2 4  (2007). These both have everything. Better sound on the Japanese CD, which also has all the June 23 items.

June 9: For this, get the U.S. CD "A Bluish Bag", Blue Note 0946 3 85193 2 4  (2007), which has all tracks except the last one, which is described as "rejected" and is unissued.

June 23: Get "New Time Shuffle", Blue Note (J) TOCJ-50277, (2012) , or the U.S. CD "Return Of The Prodigal Son", Blue Note 50999 5 17462 2 3 (2008). Both of these have everything. "Return Of The Prodigal Son" and "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" are on the U.S. CD "Easy! Stanley Turrentine Plays The Pop Hits", Blue Note 7243 4 93991 2 9  (1998).

July 28: The present online listing of this is incomplete, and I have emailed them the missing details. "The Look Of Love", "You Want Me To Stop Loving You" and both takes of "Dr Feelgood" are on the U.S. CD "Return Of The Prodigal Son", Blue Note 50999 5 17462 2 3 (2008). "You Want Me To Stop Loving You is on the U.S. CD "The Lost Grooves", Blue Note 7243 8 31883 2 1 (1995). "The Look Of Love" is on the U.S. CD "Easy! Stanley Turrentine Plays The Pop Hits", Blue Note 7243 4 93991 2 9  (1998). The only appearance of "A Foggy Day" is on the U.S. CD "Easy Walker", Blue Note 7243 8 29908 2 6  (1997), as a stray track from the session.  "Up, Up And Away" and "Georgy Girl" both remain unissued.

Phew! It's kind of a mess. I hope the details don't give anyone a headache.

I made custom CDrs of these four sessions so that I can listen to them in an organised fashion. I think my favorite session is the first one, with its three bossa nova items and regular jazz. It would have made a nice LP back in the day.

[HutchFan]

Love this stuff.  I have much of it -- but nowhere near all of it.  Thanks for reminding that there's more to investigate!   

 

[Rooster_Ties]

I think(?) I might have most of this, and maybe practically all of it.  On mobile at the moment, and trying to wrap my head around just the US domestic CD titles involved.  If anyone has a quick list of just the typical CD's one would have, by CD title (ignoring the Japanese configurations), that would be helpful.

This material is definitely of a higher caliber than it probably gets credit for -- lifted by the arrangements.

[felser]

2 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I think(?) I might have most of this, and maybe practically all of it.  On mobile at the moment, and trying to wrap my head around just the US domestic CD titles involved.  If anyone has a quick list of just the typical CD's one would have, by CD title (ignoring the Japanese configurations), that would be helpful.

This material is definitely of a higher caliber than it probably gets credit for -- lifted by the arrangements.

US CD's - 'A Bluish Bag' covers the Feb 17 and June 9 sessions; 'Return of the Prodigal Son" covers the June 23 and July 28 sessions.  22 cuts combined on the two CD's, clocks right in at 2 hours of music.  Good enough for me.

Edited September 9, 2021 by felser

[danasgoodstuff]

There is some nice music here, probably more to the taste of most here than his slightly later Look of Love and Always Something There albums with heavy orchestrations which were released at the time.  If I were to go back and reorganize, either on CD or vinyl, I would want to include this session too:

Stanley Turrentine Orchestra

Burt Collins, Marvin Stamm, trumpet, flugelhorn; Garnett Brown, Benny Powell, trombone; Stanley Turrentine, tenor sax; Jerry Dodgion, Joe Farrell, Al Gibbons, reeds; McCoy Tyner, piano; Everett Barksdale, guitar; Bob Cranshaw, bass; Grady Tate, drums.

Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, January 25, 1968

2033	Spooky	Blue Note 45-1936, B1-31883, (Eu) 7243 4 93991 2 9
2034	Elusive Butterfly	Blue Note (Eu) 7243 4 93991 2 9
2035	Love Is Blue	Blue Note 45-1936
2036	When I Look Into Your Eyes	unissued

* Blue Note (Eu) 7243 4 93991 2 9   Stanley Turrentine Plays The Pop Hits - Easy!
* Blue Note B1-31883, CDP 7243 8 31883 2 1   Various Artists - The Lost Grooves
* Blue Note 45-1936   Stanley Turrentine - Spooky / Love Is Blue

Not sure if any of it adds up to an album(s) with any kind of unity of mood.  One other thing which could be done would be to pull the 3 Jobim and 1 Bonfa from these sessions and Wave from his last BN session and make an all bossa nova LP. But then what do you do with the rest?  Since most of this is out, it's frustrating not all of it is.  I'd also like to see the post BN sessions which appeared on Trip and other labels pulled together all in one place.  I own all the issued Stan on BN save for a stray track or two (and had the Spooky/Love is Blue 45 in my hands once), but very little after that.

Edited September 9, 2021 by danasgoodstuff

[jlhoots]

I have some (enough) of this. Good stuff though.

[Rooster_Ties]

3 hours ago, felser said:

US CD's - 'A Bluish Bag' covers the Feb 17 and June 9 sessions; 'Return of the Prodigal Son" covers the June 23 and July 28 sessions.  22 cuts combined on the two CD's, clocks right in at 2 hours of music.  Good enough for me.

Yeah, I've got both of those (just pulled them out to listen to).  For some odd reason, I thought like there was a third similar one.  Thing is, I never firmly fixed the titles of these CD's in my mind, probably because I got them rather late, maybe even after I moved to DC (in 2011).

When they first came out, they weren't the highest priority -- but then only later did I sort of realize there was more going on here than met the eye ear.

[mikeweil]

Just has a look at the Turrentine sessions in the Tom Lord Disco. Almost half of his music recorded for Blue Note was not issued at the time. Then Cuscuna picked some of them for release in the rainbow series, reissues of these and others of more previously unissued music were released on the reavtivated Blue Note label, often in new compilations and with altered album titles. They probably had recorded more than they could release. What I do not understand is why they left the large band stuff in the can, which had been more costly to record.

Cuscuna avoided the strings album from 1968. Some of that was on a Plays the Pop Hits compilation, together with some of the large band tracks mentioned above. 

You overlooked "The Spoiler, recorded September 22, 1966, also featuring such a larger band:

https://www.discogs.com/Stanley-Turrentine-The-Spoiler/release/4106228

Edited September 9, 2021 by mikeweil

[Dub Modal]

Were the arrangements for these sessions done by Duke Pearson? 

[Rooster_Ties]

25 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

 You overlooked "The Spoiler, recorded September 22, 1966, also featuring such a larger band:

https://www.discogs.com/Stanley-Turrentine-The-Spoiler/release/4106228

THAT’s the other Turrentine larger-band release I was forgetting (except I had a vague memory like there was more than just those other two Conn releases that I pulled out earlier).

[JSngry]

16 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Were the arrangements for these sessions done by Duke Pearson? 

All of them.

There's Joyride, a big band date arranged by Oliver Nelson, and the two with strings albums arranged by Thad Jones (iirc), but any other large(r) ensemble Turrnetine record done for Blue Note was charted by Pearson.

[danasgoodstuff]

of all the Duke Pearson arranged sessions ST did for BN, this is probably my personal favorite.  Not coincidentally it's it's the littlest big(ger) band and the first one I owned.  I have long thought that mid-sized bands are their own distinct thing and should be recognized as such in polls, awards, etc.  If you only have 7 or 8 slots to fill, then every choice of instrumentation and personnel really matters.  Great cover and I like the tunes too.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

9 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

of all the Duke Pearson arranged sessions ST did for BN, this is probably my personal favorite.  Not coincidentally it's it's the littlest big(ger) band and the first one I owned.  I have long thought that mid-sized bands are their own distinct thing and should be recognized as such in polls, awards, etc.  If you only have 7 or 8 slots to fill, then every choice of instrumentation and personnel really matters.  Great cover and I like the tunes too.

Yeah, this is one of my favourite of Stanley's albums (along with Shirley's 'Soul song' and the one with Les McCann).

It was also the first of his 16 hit albums; made #20 on the R&B album chart. 'The look of love' was his only other hit on Blue Note.

Alfred Lion retired soon after these 1967 sessions and Francis Woolf took over production duties. I'm wondering if that caused some kind of chaotic hiccup at Blue Note, with Liberty pushing for hits and Francis feeling he had to make a name for himself. But, as Mike said, a hell of a lot of Stanley's records weren't released at the time. And Stanley ALWAYS played well.

But, as we know, Stanley wasn't the only one whose records were treated thus. It leads to the speculation of what might have happened if the owners hadn't had t osell the label but had just carried on until they died. Would anyone EVER have heard all that stuff? Maybe not.

MG

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Having spent a lot of time looking at what BN issued and when, yes things got more than a little chaotic after the sale and Alfred's retirement.  Things had always gone unreleased or delayed, but now it was different things for different reasons.  And going back years to release things that had been overlooked really started in earnest under the new ownership.  If they hadn't sold when they did there is a chance that more things could've been lost or remain unissued.  And we'll probably never know how much of what Alfred and Francis did was more or less deliberate and how much was being overwhelmed with work.

[Guy Berger]

I've only heard a few of these - I'd rank The Spoiler ahead of Joy Ride and Rough & Tumble, but they're all worth hearing.  Stanley was a great fit for this format because of his huge style.

[danasgoodstuff]

2 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

I've only heard a few of these - I'd rank The Spoiler ahead of Joy Ride and Rough & Tumble, but they're all worth hearing.  Stanley was a great fit for this format because of his huge style.

I agree that the format fits ST well.  My fondness for R&T may well be a combo of having heard it first and because Grant Green is on it.  At Least 2, maybe 3 solid albums could've been made from the initially unissued sessions, but I have to wonder what their reception would've been.  but then what they did issue seems weird to me too, both mostly not a good fit for the times and more than a little all over the place with the 2 heavily orchestrated dates (Look of Love & Always Something There) follow by an organ date with Idris (Common touch) and then a very straight ahead date (Another Story), with a non-album single too.  Hard to say what they were thinking re a marketing strategy, just throwing it at the wall or several different strategies competing? The thing I wish they had done would be an all spirituals albums, maybe with varying accompaniment..

 

(4) Bayou (2005 Digital Remaster) - YouTube

this link has most of what we're talking about here, if not all.

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by danasgoodstuff
dup

[JSngry]

I think they were maybe trying to get a bunch of stuff in the can before he switched labels...although that Canyon record probably had the last-laughing at that idea for a second.

[mhatta]

For me, these sessions are summarized into this one tune.  I heard this originally on a BN compilation called "The Lost Grooves".  I think it was from the very last session Alfred Lion personally directed.  BTW, Is this really written by that Wild Bill Davis?  Is there his own recordings? It sounds very much modern.  Anywise, I say this is hardboiled bitter sweetness embodied.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by mhatta

[mikeweil]

13 hours ago, mhatta said:

 BTW, Is this really written by that Wild Bill Davis?  Is there his own recordings? 

The Lord Disco does not list any other recording of a tune with this tittle.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'm sure this can't be a Wild Bill Davis tune. I tried to get at it by looking on google for a songwriter called M Watts and didn't get anything looking likely. But there are plenty of people called M Watts, and some of them (Mike Watts) are musicians.

But it's a song, not a tune. No tunesmith would EVER write an instrumental with that title. So don't look in jazz. It's a song that's so unsuccessful that it's not even celebrated for its lack of success.

MG

[JSngry]

Try Mayme Watts.

& Walter Davis, Jr.?

https://books.google.com/books?id=uz8hAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA2289&lpg=PA2289&dq=Mayme+Watts+you+want+me+to+stop+loving+you+w+davis&source=bl&ots=b2HKOFmDeg&sig=ACfU3U0Y9XqKGsh19I-KtkzNylSn0GcmtA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAtKOUwffyAhXZRTABHeZGCUUQ6AF6BAguEAM#v=onepage&q=Mayme%20Watts%20you%20want%20me%20to%20stop%20loving%20you%20w%20davis&f=false

Mr & Mrs they were: http://www.45cat.com/record/4g0103

https://books.google.com/books?id=IzkDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=mayme+watts+walter+davis&source=bl&ots=sIUmuXL1Wc&sig=ACfU3U3hgiZ2zy2SEpGLg9QP_yizlV7ZJQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjiutSAwvfyAhX0RDABHfmOCDEQ6AF6BAgLEAM#v=onepage&q=mayme%20watts%20walter%20davis&f=false

Mayme might have had some bank...

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Try Mayme Watts.

& Walter Davis, Jr.?

https://books.google.com/books?id=uz8hAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA2289&lpg=PA2289&dq=Mayme+Watts+you+want+me+to+stop+loving+you+w+davis&source=bl&ots=b2HKOFmDeg&sig=ACfU3U0Y9XqKGsh19I-KtkzNylSn0GcmtA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAtKOUwffyAhXZRTABHeZGCUUQ6AF6BAguEAM#v=onepage&q=Mayme%20Watts%20you%20want%20me%20to%20stop%20loving%20you%20w%20davis&f=false

Mr & Mrs they were: http://www.45cat.com/record/4g0103

https://books.google.com/books?id=IzkDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=mayme+watts+walter+davis&source=bl&ots=sIUmuXL1Wc&sig=ACfU3U3hgiZ2zy2SEpGLg9QP_yizlV7ZJQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjiutSAwvfyAhX0RDABHfmOCDEQ6AF6BAgLEAM#v=onepage&q=mayme%20watts%20walter%20davis&f=false

Mayme might have had some bank...

STRUTH! I looked at Mayme watts in Discogs but she seemed a bit too early for this. And there was the best part of bugger all on her there, anyway.

MG

Oh, and Sid Wyche also wrote 'A woman, a lover, a friend' for Jackie Wislon.

MG

[mhatta]

You guys solved my long-standing mystery!  Thanks!

It seems that the real title of this tune is "You Want Me To Stop" and the lead sheets is still in Walter Davis, Jr.'s archive.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/lead-sheets-unpublished-copyright-deposits-1964-1977/oclc/271073204

There also seems to be a tune entitled "Sister Mayme"! I guess these two were close at that period.

I don't know how Library of Congress works (and I live in Japan anyway), could somebody in DC area check the availability of that documents? ;-)

[JSngry]

19 minutes ago, mhatta said:

There also seems to be a tune entitled "Sister Mayme"! I guess these two were close at that period.

They were married!