Tony Scott

[Quasimado]

1 hour ago, Gheorghe said:

I must look if I find the one Tony Scott solo I heard once. Is it possible that it was on some of all those Bird-Unissued Material. I didn´t really listen to much of the stuff, since very often it´s just from one nighters with musicians he was not used to, and sometimes very weak sound quality. Is it possible I heard a long track on some standard , it may be Indiana or Lover Come Back to me, a long track where there is a clarinet solo also ? Maybe that is Tony Scott. As usual with clarinet in that context, I don´t have much love for that instrument, it has a more piercing sound in the upper register, and a more "funny" sound in the lower register . Anyway I think there was such a booklet or something were Bird plays and then is a long squeaky sounding clarinet solo. 

P.S.: On the other hand, I feel better when it´s Dolphy´s or Maupin´s bass clarinet, that sounds much better to me than the traditional clarinet. 

It sounds like you are referring to the 20 minute broadcast of a jam on "Lover Come Back to Me" from Cafe Society in 1950, with Bird, Tony Scott, Brew Moore, Dick Hyman, Ed Shaughnessy and others. 

Tony's playing is long and generally excruciating. Bird is superb - relaxed, imaginative, melodic and swinging over several perfect choruses ... IMO one of his greatest (and longest) solos on tape.

[Gheorghe]

18 hours ago, Quasimado said:

It sounds like you are referring to the 20 minute broadcast of a jam on "Lover Come Back to Me" from Cafe Society in 1950, with Bird, Tony Scott, Brew Moore, Dick Hyman, Ed Shaughnessy and others. 

Tony's playing is long and generally excruciating. Bird is superb - relaxed, imaginative, melodic and swinging over several perfect choruses ... IMO one of his greatest (and longest) solos on tape.

So my memory´s right and it is "Lover Come Back to Me". I love that tune and often perform Hawk´s first class bop line on it "Bean ´n the Boys" at a brisk tempo. 
I´ll have to listen to that track eventually. For Bird and for Brew ! Maybe Ed Shaughnessy is not really my idea of a drummer for Bird´s music. I heard a lot of great Bird who sounds great in spite of some not adecvate drummer, but I can´t really enjoy it if it´s not Klook, Roach, Roy Haynes, Art Taylor etc.  since I prefer to hear Bird in a perfect bop-context, even if the solos are shorter. 

[JSngry]

 

[Larry Kart]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

 

More like a "Hey, listen to me I'm whispering" stage whisper it seems to me. For genuine intimacy on the instrument at a low volume level try Jimmy Giuffre.

[JSngry]

Sounds like you're not going to like him no matter what, then.

[Larry Kart]

1 hour ago, Larry Kart said:

More like a "Hey, listen at me I'm whispering" stage whisper it seems to me. For genuine intimacy on the instrument at a low volume level try Jimmy Giuffre.

You're right, probably not, because both Scott's sotto voce whispering manner and his moments of shrill excitement seem to me have their roots in the same button-holing the audience impulses that Bill Crow spoke of. When Giuffre (or Peewee Russell for that matter) are in a sotto voce mood, they seem to me to be listening to/communing with themselves, while Scott's default mode is typically performative.  

[JSngry]

"Performative"...yeah, whatever. People perform, they do.

Onward.

[Larry Kart]

Performative behavior is an action taken specifically with an audience in mind, to elicit a response or reaction. 

[JSngry]

I know what it means, and I see nothing intrinsically bad about it.

[Larry Kart]

Not intrinsically bad but different.

[JSngry]

Bill Crow found it offensive and told the world he did. And now, here we are, obvious evolution dismissed per The Bill Crow Paradigm. 

Bill Crow, Influencer!!! 

[Joe]

I would never have pegged Bill Crow as a precursor to Eddie Prevost and the experimental, mostly UK-based musicians associated with "egoless improvisation." But his critique is as much social as it is aesthetic. Those are inextricably linked, of course, especially in music/practice that involves this level of spontaneous collaboration. And I'm not disagreeing with Crow... just interesting to me to see these threads running through to the evolution of an avant-garde Crow likely would have criticized for other reasons.

[JSngry]

Crow was a good writer when he stayed within his world and place. But he could certainly be smug, prissy, and vain about the accuracy of his judgements. Judge Bill Crow, his decisions are final. Not just him, but fellow ulcerateds like Phil Woods, Bob Brookmeyer....probably Gerry Mulligan on a bad day.

Here's the deal for me = Tony Scott was indeed often annoying when he did his squiggly-diggly schtick, especially when he did it as a way to skirt over actually playing the changes. But sometimes he was good doing that. Not usually, but sometime.

More importantly, at some point he stopped doing that (or at least got it under control). As much as I find his earlier work uneven (to put it mildly), I find his later work to be immensly pleasurable and satisfying.

He evolved, simple as that. Assigning "motives" to it and shit like that seems to be typing the player regardless of the music. "It's Tony Scott, so no mattter what he plays, it's always going to be XYZ". And I'll call laziness on that one.

[Peter Friedman]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

Crow was a good writer when he stayed within his world and place. But he could certainly be smug, prissy, and vain about the accuracy of his judgements. Judge Bill Crow, his decisions are final. Not just him, but fellow ulcerateds like Phil Woods, Bob Brookmeyer....probably Gerry Mulligan on a bad day.

 

Please clarify the word "ulcerateds" here.  Is that actually a word?

[JSngry]

53 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

Is that actually a word?

As used here, yes.