Tony Scott

[Rabshakeh]

Thanks everyone!

[JSngry]

53 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

@Rabshakeh: These sessions should be easy enough to track down after all. Here is a 2CD set that combines the three LPs in their original track order (as far as I can check). So you can listen to them piecemeal LP-wise if you prefer.

https://www.freshsoundrecords.com/tony-scott-bill-evans-albums/2454-a-day-in-new-york-2-cds.html?search_query=Tony+Scott&results=76

Ok, that's ruight, they did release them in record order rahter than seeion order. It's the session order that I had to reconstruct. Usually I'm not that ambitious (excpet on a hard drive), but in this case, it was such a uniquest day of recording, I wnated to hear it that way.

No matter, the music is far above par no matter how you parse it.

[Joe]

From the same era as the DAY IN NEW YORK sessions are SUNG HEROES and AT LAST. The former a rather subdued studio date with Evans, LaFaro and Motian, the latter an edgier live recording (Half Note?) with Evans again, plus Jimmy Garrison and Pete LaRoca.

Some excellent late period Scott to be heard on this recording, IMO.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Joe

[JSngry]

58 minutes ago, Joe said:

Some excellent late period Scott to be heard on this recording, IMO.

 

Same.

[Peter Friedman]

Most Tony Scott recordings are not to my taste, especially when he moved off into areas quite removed from straight ahead jazz. Here are a couple of his earlier recordings that I am able to enjoy.

[mjzee]

7 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

@Rabshakeh: These sessions should be easy enough to track down after all. Here is a 2CD set that combines the three LPs in their original track order (as far as I can check). So you can listen to them piecemeal LP-wise if you prefer.

https://www.freshsoundrecords.com/tony-scott-bill-evans-albums/2454-a-day-in-new-york-2-cds.html?search_query=Tony+Scott&results=76

 

Interesting discussion.  Amazon has offered the download of the full day session for $3.99 for awhile now, and I've been tempted:  https://www.amazon.com/York-Tony-Scott-Bill-Evans/dp/B076X5Y7T2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Tony+Scott+a+day+in+new+york&qid=1628026587&s=dmusic&sr=1-1

[JSngry]

I'm not the one to recommend a Fresh Sounds product for anything, ever. But there are exceptions to every rule and this is one.

[sgcim]

5 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

Most Tony Scott recordings are not to my taste, especially when he moved off into areas quite removed from straight ahead jazz. Here are a couple of his earlier recordings that I am able to enjoy.

When I was still in my teens, I did a show with Jimmy Knepper, and I said to him, "Wow, I've got that TS album that you play on that sounds like a jam session. You sounded great on that." The album was "Free Blown Jazz".

He remembered the record and asked me if I could bring it in the next night so he could tape it. Luckily the gig was for a full week, so I gave it to him the next night, and he returned it the night after that.

Years later, we did a jazz festival gig together, and I asked him if he remembered me loaning him the album, and he said, "No".

[jazzcorner]

13 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

Most Tony Scott recordings are not to my taste, especially when he moved off into areas quite removed from straight ahead jazz. Here are a couple of his earlier recordings that I am able to enjoy.

Agreed. Same situation here with my favorits of his earlier recordings

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by jazzcorner
typo

[Big Beat Steve]

For obvious reasons I prefer the pre-Asian recordings by Tony Scott too - but that's a matter of basic approach to his music which may vary a LOT according to each indvidual's tastes in jazz. OTOH, I msut admit there are moments when I find Scott's preference for the higher register of his instrument a bit grating even on these 50s sessions.

Re- the last-mentioned recordings, I remember having read a rave review of the "Message from Garcia" LP (mostly for Garcia's guitar palying, of course) recently but cannot track it down right now to quote. I guess I'll give the LP a spin tonight (it's been a long time since last time ... ).

 

[Teasing the Korean]

21 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

OTOH, I msut admit there are moments when I find Scott's preference for the higher register of his instrument a bit grating even on these 50s sessions.

Interesting, because one of the reasons I love THEE DEFINITIVE VERSION of "Riff's Blues" from Mike Hammer is the lowerer-register playing, along with the quieter attack.

The bass clarinet in particular is an under-appreciated instrument.

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Interesting, because one of the reasons I love THEE DEFINITIVE VERSION of "Riff's Blues" from Mike Hammer is the lowerer-register playing, along with the quieter attack.

 

So I assume that version is THY DEFINITIVE VERSION, right?

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

For obvious reasons I prefer the pre-Asian recordings by Tony Scott too -

 

Not sure what you mean by "pre-Asian"?

He did those "meditation" albums and then set about living all over the world playing all types of jazz, including "normal". It's not like he Zen-ed out and live in Kyoto for the rest of his like.

[Big Beat Steve]

It is an approximation, nothing more. Not a definition of a specific cutoff date carved in rock. Looking at his overall discography, the basic idea should be clear, though.

[JSngry]

well, not necessarily...will there aloes be "post-Asian" recordings? There certainly were a lot of them!

[Big Beat Steve]

Ah, JSangrey splitting hairs again ... If you look at his stylistic evolution you will find that, chronologically speaking, there is a period BEFORE the "Asian" recordings (it's up to you if you consider Zen meditation, for example, being sufficiently Asian-influenced to file them under "Asia"), and his earlier output ranks stylistically "before" these "Asian" recordings so that's that. Whatever there is in "post-Asian" is beside the point because it's not what I was thinking of (neither, I would assume, by Peter Friedmann nor Jazzcorner).

(As for the 1962 Asia tour (see the recent Lost Tapes release),  I haven't heard it yet so won't comment on that.)

And at any rate this nitpicking is pointless. Tony Scott had different "periods" so it is only natural that these would appeal quite differently to people because the musical contents were deeply different.

[JSngry]

It's not really picking hairs - if you want to designate "pre-Asian and NOT "post-Asian", you just leave it hanging, like he did that and then did nothing dlse.

He did a lot else. There's definitely a "post-Asian" (whatever that really means?) period, I mean, my god he made a record with a trad band, and a buttload full of records just playing standards, so, yea, "post-Asian" is not splitting hairs at all.

Have you heard any of these records, or did you just go up to the end of the "pre-Asian" period and just stop?

You can think of anything you want, but if you're factually/historically wrong, you're wrong.

[medjuck]

3 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Interesting, because one of the reasons I love THEE DEFINITIVE VERSION of "Riff's Blues" from Mike Hammer is the lowerer-register playing, along with the quieter attack.

The bass clarinet in particular is an under-appreciated instrument.

 

IIRC the Darren McGavin Mike Hammer used  Harlem Nocturne as the theme.  No idea whose version it was. 

[Big Beat Steve]

@Jsngry: Yes you ARE splitting hairs. I just said I prefer his recordings from his pre-Asian period. To anyone even superficially aware of what he did, hat defines them (at least roughly) in the chronology of his recorded works. Whatever he did later is BESIDE THE POINT. I did NOT dwell on these. So there is nothing to be "factually" or even historically wrong or right about. (In fact it would be historically wrong to claim that e.g. a preference for the works of an artist from period 1 that predated period 2 would by inference state ANYTHING about period 3)  And no, there is no overriding truth in how to approach diverse discographies such as his.

You are free to have the last word you so desire in (pointless) rounds like this you like to fuel ever so often but again - there is no mandatory way to justify preferences - or to justify them at all. They are just matters of taste, purely and simply.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

So, do you like his "post-Asian" records? Have you heard them? Those Philology releases in particular are delightful!

[Teasing the Korean]

I was just listening to Billie Holiday sing "Everything Happens to Me."  When the clarinet solo arrived, I immediately heard in my mind Tony Scott's amazing version of "Riff Blues" that I posted above from TV Action Jazz.  I was correct:  It is indeed he! 

[Larry Kart]

TTK: Did ever read Bill Crow's devastating takedown of Tony Scott in the Jazz Review?

Here's Crow's  review:

 

 

TONY SCOTT and the ALL STARS: .52nd Street Scene. Coral 57239.

On Dines lor "The Street," and Lore Is JIKI hound lite Corner; Joe Thomas, trum- pet: ,1. < . 11 igginbotham , and W ither De Pari>. trombone-; Tony Scott and Pee Wee Kti.— ell. clarinets; Sonny W hite, piano, Den/.il Best, drums; Osear Petiiiord, bass; AICasey,guitar.OnBody and Soul: Cole- man Hawkins, tenor; Tony Scott, clarinet; Tommy Flanagan, piano; Gene Ram ey, ba.-s; Walter Bolden, drums. On Ornithol- ogy; same as Body and Sou! plus Jimmy Knepper, trombone. In Lester Leaps In, t.orer Man, Woody 'A" You, 'Round Mid- night, and Mop Mop: Tony Scott, clarinet and baritone ^as; Al Cohn. tenor: Red Rodney, trumpet; Jimmy Knepper, trom- bone; George W allingtou, piano; Oscar Pelliford, ha«s; Roy Haynes. drums; Mun- dell I,owe. guitar.

 

A legend has somehow grown up around Tony Scott, casting him in the role of "the real jazzman" whose credentials are his eagerness to sit in with everyone and to organize jam sessions. Now it is true that a lot of pleasure, inspiration, and education is available for jazzmen at in- formal sessions. This sort of playing is a source of true recreation, offer- ing a musician more freedom than he may be allowed where he earns his money, or a chance to play when he is out of work, or close artistic contact with other musicians without the responsibility to entertain cus- tomers. These objectives are inter- fered with and often made impossible to attain by the attitude with which Tonv approaches a session. Though he professes a great respect for the work of other musicians, he seldom waits to be asked before leaping onto a bandstand with them, horn in hand —and he eyidences little awareness of the tastes or sensibilities of the musicians playing vyith him. When be is around it is always a show, and it is always Tony's show, unless a bigger ham upstages him.

 

Tony wants to be a star. He uses every situation as a stepping stone in his energetic scramble not for artistry, but for fame. He is so intent on his goal that he doesn't even realize how badly he uses his associates. His manner has become so ingrained that he continues to put on a break-it-up show even when musicians are his only audience. He plays in a tortured, rigid, sensationalistic manner thai successfully attracts attention but has little to do with playing music.

 

Since he usually hires good men, I assume that Tony is able to recognize high quality work, but he does not appear to aim for this quality in his own playing. He concentrates on the end-result image of himself as a musical hero and applies himself to the evocation of that image in more dramatic than musical terms. His en- tire bag of effects are used with no concern for their musical value, but only as large electric signs flashing •"ME! ME! ME!" His affectations of humility are loaded with egotism. He continually professes his respect for the work of Ben Webster. Charlie Parker. Coleman Hawkins, etc.. and showers them with maudlin praise, but his playing indicates that he has learned very little from them.

 

The foregoing notwithstanding. Tony is a definite presence on the jam session scene, and probably be- longs on this album as much as any- one else, since he is the inveterate sitter-in. His presence is representa- tive, if not particularly valid musically. His tone and phrasing here indicate a stifflv held body, shallow breathing, a generally un-giving attitude, and a lack of belief in what he is playing. He tries to make up for all this with dramatics that are about as believ- able as Liberace’s smile.

 

He plays with less affectation on the baritone sax than he does on clarinet, though he is never com-pletely candid. His baritone sound is very clarinet-like. It occasionally slips into the true resonance of the instrument, but Tony evidently pre- fers the airier quality. His clarinet sound is either a fidgety, watery sub- tone or a thin, shrieky full tone, with rare lapses into a more normal tim- bre. Instead of following up the in- teresting fragments of ideas thai pop up in his playing, he falls back con- stantly on his three favorite devices: five-note descending chromatic runs, ear-piercing squeals and glissandos. and hysteric noncommittal twittering around the changes with an air that puts one in mind of Billie Burke in a high wind.

 

Tonv is juxtaposed in an illumi- nating way with Pee \\ cc Russell on Love Is Just Around The Corner.

(They split the opening chorus, alter- nate choruses, exchange fours, and take the tune out together.) Pee Wee's style is. for entirely different reasons. \erv similar to Tonv s. He plays tentatively, uses both subtone and full air . bends notes, and shrieks, but the difference could not be greater. His faltering and mut- tering is an expression of the ago- nizing self-conscousness that causes him to qualify every statement with effacement and apologv. but beneath this is a warm gentle man who w\ith all his stammering, manages to ex- pose his most tender feelings. The indefinit-'iiess in Tonv's playing is of another genre, resulting from, an evasion of rather than an attempt at direct expression. I hear no gentle- ness in him, only hardness at varying levels of volume.

 

Blues For "The Street" is charac- teristic of jam sessions, each man playing several choruses with a rhythm section. A l Casey sets a very easygoing mood in his opening cho- ruses, and Joe Thomas, Sonny White, and J. C. Higginbotham follow in a similar vein, J. C. playing with more enthusiasm than inspiration. Oscar Pettiford's solo is ripe andfluentand his intonation and blend with the accompanying guitar i s exquisite. Tony begins his chorus sotto voce, playing perfectly valid blues melody in what amounts to a loud stage whisper. . . . "Look, look! I'm being subtle!" Wilbur DeParis' straight- forward simplicity seems particularly meaty after all this, and Pee Wee's customary intensity sounds relaxed by comparison. The remaining tracks are more re- stricting, since the amount of indi- vidual playing time has been curtailed in order to give everyone a chance to be heard. Body and Soul is divided among Coleman, Tony, and Tommy Flanagan. Though Tony fools around less here than he does on up tempos, the time would have been much better devoted to further development by Coleman. Hawk makes a whole lot out of his last half chorus, blowing away all the cobwebs with which Scott has decorated the first half.

 

Mop Mop allows each soloist one chorus of / Got Rhythm at a fast tempo, and hardly anyone gets going before his chorus is over. Red Rodney plays with just Oscar accompanying (except on the bridge), and his tone takes on an unusual richness because of Oscar's resonant support. Knepper and Cohn both needed another chorus. Scott plays like a stunt rider on a tricycle. Roy Haynes' excellent half chorus is upset by Pettiford, who puts a lead-in figure on the bridge in the wrong place. Everyone goes along with Oscar, so the ending is strong even though displaced a beat. Roy makes the adjustment nicely.

 

Al Cohn hits his stride on Lester Leaps In. He plays a fat, rolling in- troduction, decorates the lead chorus tastefully, and composes a well-con- structed chorus of his own. Lowe's guitar, Scott's baritone, and Walling- ton's piano solos are satisfactory, and Knepper, Rodney, and Haynes create interesting choruses. Oscar begins his solo with a delayed permutation of the original melody, loses Roy, loses himself, and leads the band back into the last chorus a bar early, but his conception is so interesting and his recovery so absolute that it's a good chorus even with the goof.

 

With all his preciosity, Tony comes closest to playing meaningful music on Lover Man. The notes he chooses have something to do with the tune, and he restricts himself to a mini- mum of archness. Mundell plays a prettily chorded bridge, and Jimmy Knepper's last eight of the first chorus is lovely. George W allington's bridge sustains the mood effectively, but seems terribly sere and brittle.

 

Woody W You allows each soloist eight bars, and there is hardly enough time for anyone to say anything, let alone relate it to what has gone be- fore. Still, it's a pleasant, craftsman- like track. Midnight has a prettily played intro and coda by Red, the melody played rubato with great depth of feeling by Oscar, and a melodramatic clarinet solo played by Theda Bara. The sad thing is that if he would drop the phony passion he'd discover that he is actually play- ing some beautiful notes, and might feel some real passion about that.

Flanagan plays two handsome cho- ruses on Ornithology, illustrating his indebtedness to Hank Jones. Coleman barely gets warmed up to this tune before his time is up. Knepper is agile and imaginative, but sacrifices a lot of tone quality for speed. (What- ever became of the fat trombone sound? Jack T eagarden, Jack Jenney, Murray McEacher'n, and several others played with agility and still got a big tone.) Tony builds an agitated chorus out of his chromatic descending runs and little else, giv- ing an impression of great mobility restrained by tremendous rigidity.

[Larry Kart]

In the next issue or so Bill Evans wrote a letter that came to Scott's defense. I think Crow got it right.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Larry Kart said:

I think Crow got it right.

For the time it was written, probably so. 

[Quasimado]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

For the time it was written, probably so. 

It would be interesting to know Evans' reply ...