Jazz Modernism outside the Americas - Recommendations and recollections

[mjazzg]

  On 8/1/2021 at 3:01 PM, sidewinder said:

This one - 

Just found my copy and also the Forum West.

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Thank you. imaginatively titled sequel.  Now to find it!

[sidewinder]

They’ve also done compilations of Polish Jazz and at least one compilation of the Novi Singers. Been meaning to check those out.

Next stop - Albanian/Macedonian Jazz 1960-1990 perhaps?

Edited August 1, 2021 by sidewinder

[mjazzg]

Just bought this one

I have a few Amigas already so will be interested to sample some more

Edited August 1, 2021 by mjazzg

[sidewinder]

  On 8/1/2021 at 3:13 PM, mjazzg said:

Just bought this one

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I would be interested to hear what you think when you get it.

Conjures up images of numbers stations and skullduggery !

[mjazzg]

  On 8/1/2021 at 3:15 PM, sidewinder said:

I would be interested to hear what you think when you get it.

Conjures up images of numbers stations and skullduggery !

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And lots of drizzle as per earlier them in this thread. Seemed worth the trip across Checkpoint Charlie

[Bluesnik]

  On 8/1/2021 at 3:18 PM, mjazzg said:

Seemed worth the trip across Checkpoint Charlie

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 I have done that trip a couple of times. Once, I remember, in 1983 or 84. And yes, it was a harrowing scene. But I also remember when that Amiga compilation came out on JCR, which was the sister label to Compost, a German label I was very much in awe of at the mid 90s to the mid 2000s, and (JCR) which was the collaboration of Jazzanova and Compost.

[Peter Friedman]

Here are just 4  CDs in my collection that immediately come to mind.

I have a very large number of CDs by jazz musicians from many European countries.

[Peter Friedman]

[mjazzg]

Has this been mentioned?

[Niko]

Yes, I mentioned it above, it's great!

[Peter Friedman]

[mjazzg]

  On 8/4/2021 at 6:25 AM, Niko said:

Yes, I mentioned it above, it's great!

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You did. I was too lazy to check all the thread 

It does look interesting

[Big Beat Steve]

Seeing Joe Zawinul's name mentined in another thread, here is an appetizer of early "modern from Austria" (a country not much mentioned so far): An interesting  CD reissue of 1954-57 recordings by the Austrian All Stars featuring Joe Zawinul at his early career when he still had hair (but no beard) and did not wear funny caps yet:

 

Who would have guessed?

[Peter Friedman]

[Niko]

The two albums with Rene Thomas (#1&3), the latter existing with various covers, would be in my top extremely few list of Euro jazz albums that fit the bill... 

[Niko]

  On 8/4/2021 at 2:30 PM, mjazzg said:

You did. I was too lazy to check all the thread 

It does look interesting

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what I especially like about that compilation is that it's not limited to incredibly rare stuff (even though there is some on there) but also some tracks from albums that are super easy to find once you know that they are actually decent jazz records (with somewhat short tracks though)

 

[Rabshakeh]

  On 8/5/2021 at 9:42 PM, Niko said:

The two albums with Rene Thomas (#1&3), the latter existing with various covers, would be in my top extremely few list of Euro jazz albums that fit the bill... 

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Which are these? Sorry if I missed it.

[Niko]

  On 8/6/2021 at 9:10 AM, Rabshakeh said:

Which are these? Sorry if I missed it.

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sorry, should have made clearer that I was replying to Peter Friedman... I meant the Eddy Louiss Trio and the Bobby Jaspar / Rene Thomas album on Mole Jazz ... (without actually counting the beans) I'd argue that it's hard to justify a top 5 of albums featuring Rene Thomas without including those two (or a top5 of albums featuring Bobby Jaspar without including the latter)

[mjazzg]

  On 8/6/2021 at 6:44 AM, Niko said:

what I especially like about that compilation is that it's not limited to incredibly rare stuff (even though there is some on there) but also some tracks from albums that are super easy to find once you know that they are actually decent jazz records (with somewhat short tracks though)

 

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I'm enjoying 'Jazz Goes Swinging', thanks Niko

[Niko]

a funny thing about "Jazz goes Swinging" is that the "St Tropez Jazz Octett" is basically Placebo, the Belgian answer to Soft Machine... these were professionals who would play any style...  just remove the trombones, replace one of the trumpeters and the bassist and you have the band that can be seen playing fusion a few years later, starting around 32:30 in this video (the other bands in that video are also interesting, a Fats Sadi Quartet and a Rene Thomas Trio)

[Rabshakeh]

  On 8/6/2021 at 9:42 AM, Niko said:

a funny thing about "Jazz goes Swinging" is that the "St Tropez Jazz Octett" is basically Placebo, the Belgian answer to Soft Machine... 

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Is that how they were billed? Funny idea.

I only know Marc Moulin's very Gilles Peterson approved Sam Suffy record. Are there any Placebo records that stand the test of time? 

  On 8/6/2021 at 9:16 AM, Niko said:

sorry, should have made clearer that I was replying to Peter Friedman... I meant the Eddy Louiss Trio and the Bobby Jaspar / Rene Thomas album on Mole Jazz ... (without actually counting the beans) I'd argue that it's hard to justify a top 5 of albums featuring Rene Thomas without including those two (or a top5 of albums featuring Bobby Jaspar without including the latter)

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Thanks. Sorry for being slow.

[Niko]

  On 8/6/2021 at 9:53 AM, Rabshakeh said:

Is that how they were billed? Funny idea.

I only know Marc Moulin's very Gilles Peterson approved Sam Suffy record. Are there any Placebo records that stand the test of time?

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re Moulin /  Placebo, it's too long ago so I wouldn't want to make a differentiating verdict about the three albums... I think if you like one, you probably like the others as well... I started with a compilation which was fine musically but I never really got to know the albums separately... I'd say the albums are slightly better than the music in the video and I also like them a bit more than Sam Suffy... but both are nuances and I haven't really checked in a while...

re the billing on that album: Tony Dirne who produced these two records among hundreds of others apparently just recorded music and then invented song titles, a name for the artist, found some photographs to go with the music... and sold the stuff to different labels... That he had the good sense to actually reveal that this album was a Jon Eardley album instead of inventing a name was quite unusual ... (next level would have been to use a photograph of Jon Eardley on the cover instead of some random guys... that all songs were composed by Dirne's wife Jacky is probably inaccurate as well, especially since there is some overlap with material that Eardley recorded for Prestige in the 50s... never got around to ordering the guy's autobiography but I might at some point...)

[Big Beat Steve]

  On 8/6/2021 at 10:19 AM, Niko said:

re the billing on that album: Tony Dirne who produced these two records among hundreds of others apparently just recorded music and then invented song titles, a name for the artist, found some photographs to go with the music... and sold the stuff to different labels... That he had the good sense to actually reveal that this album was a Jon Eardley album instead of inventing a name was quite unusual ... (next level would have been to use a photograph of Jon Eardley on the cover instead of some random guys... that all songs were composed by Dirne's wife Jacky is probably inaccurate as well, especially since there is some overlap with material that Eardley recorded for Prestige in the 50s... never got around to ordering the guy's autobiography but I might at some point...)

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I think this was common practice wherever someone attempted to make an even faster buck by  widening its sales appeal with a sort of "generic" artist credits than would allow the buyers' imaginations to run wild (and be fooled ). The 1957 Wolfgang Lauth session (that I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread) that ended up on the obscure U.S. Pulse label (though recorded in Germany but never released here) was credited to an imaginary "European Jazz Quartet" (maybe trying to trick Stateside buyers into believing this was "Europe's Answer to the MJQ"? ), though at least the musicians were identified correctly in the liner notes. Not to mention the fanciful credits (or no-credits) on budget labels such as Crown ...

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Big Beat Steve

[Big Beat Steve]

  On 8/6/2021 at 9:16 AM, Niko said:

sorry, should have made clearer that I was replying to Peter Friedman... I meant the Eddy Louiss Trio and the Bobby Jaspar / Rene Thomas album on Mole Jazz ... (without actually counting the beans) I'd argue that it's hard to justify a top 5 of albums featuring Rene Thomas without including those two (or a top5 of albums featuring Bobby Jaspar without including the latter)

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Just out of curiosity: How would you rate this one (below) overall, then?

https://www.discogs.com/de/Ren%C3%A9-Thomas-Guitar-Genius-/release/7848730

 

[Niko]

  On 8/6/2021 at 12:36 PM, Big Beat Steve said:

Just out of curiosity: How would you rate this one (below) overall, then?

https://www.discogs.com/de/Ren%C3%A9-Thomas-Guitar-Genius-/release/7848730

 

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I only got the Guitar Genius CD relatively recently (and still haven't found Volume 2) and I think I'd rate it somewhere in the middle of my Rene Thomas albums... to be more precise: the Louiss/Thomas/Clarke Trio CD is one of my all-time favorite jazz albums and I'd place that one in a different league... I like Thomas' early sessions (like "The real cat" which Peter Friedman posted above), they're more focused and maybe a bit less free - hard to compare... there's some great stuff from the early sixties which strikes a pretty good balance imho e.g. the Italian quintet album with Jaspar or the Riverside album... There is still amazing stuff from later though, like the organ bands with Eddy Louiss (including Stan Getz' Dynasty) or Lou Bennett... The later live recordings can be a bit incoherent at times, a tiny bit like Tony Fruscella at the Open Door or so... the best minutes are genius, the weaker minutes might be somewhere in the middle of a bass solo by someone who wasn't born to play super long bass solos (but still did it from time to time). I'd say that the Guitar Genius CD is one of the better collections in that category (others include the albums on Vogel and Timeless which I like but which I would put behind Guitar Genius)... The Ronnie Scott's album is also a somewhat rough live recording... but all four guys in the band (Jaspar, Thomas, B Quersin, D Humair) are great and, in particular, I think this is one of the place where one can hear what's the big deal about Bobby Jaspar - imho this album has one of Europe's brightest tenors in one of his brightest moments (and on flute on some tracks that I sometimes skip) - and for that reason (Jaspar) I'd put it ahead of Guitar Genius...  I have less of an overview when it comes to Jaspar, but of the stuff I know I'd put only Modern Jazz Au Club Saint Germain ahead of The Ronnie Scott's album.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Niko