Mosaic Masters After They Go Out of Print

[Teasing the Korean]

I am assuming that after Mosaic sets go out of print, the masters resort to the original rights holders.  

At that point, are they sold digitally by the original labels, e.g. EMI/Universal, either as complete boxes or broken into original albums or, in other cases, smaller chunks?  

I would consider buying some of these as lossless downloads from Qobuz if they were available.  

[sonnymax]

Capitol Vaults Jazz Series

[Teasing the Korean]

  On 6/18/2021 at 1:10 AM, sonnymax said:

Capitol Vaults Jazz Series

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Thanks.  I'm not seeing the Johnny Richards volume.

Actually, Qobuz has only 16 of these.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[Teasing the Korean]

So I guess, basically, that the answer is that EMI/Universal doesn't care that much.

I don't understand the economics of the situation.  Mosaic puts in the work, and then all Universal has to do is upload the files.

[jlhoots]

But then why would you buy a limited edition set if it wasn't a limited edition set??

[Teasing the Korean]

  On 6/18/2021 at 2:44 PM, jlhoots said:

But then why would you buy a limited edition set if it wasn't a limited edition set??

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Because only some people want the physical product. Some don't, and some may want only selected albums in the sets.  

I buy lots of limited edition film scores, and many of these are offered as lossless downloads after the physical product sells out.

Why should Universal should not upload these?  Mosaic has zero say in the matter.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[Dub Modal]

I don't think Capitol Vaults has the entire Mosaic discography correct? It seems pretty limited actually. 

[Teasing the Korean]

  On 6/18/2021 at 3:02 PM, Dub Modal said:

I don't think Capitol Vaults has the entire Mosaic discography correct? It seems pretty limited actually. 

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Correct, and as far as lossless downloads, they offer only 16, at least under the Capitol Vaults banner.

So the question is, what's stopping them?  The work has already been done.  All they need to do is upload the files.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[medjuck]

  On 6/18/2021 at 2:52 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

Because only some people want the physical product. Some don't, and some may want only selected albums in the sets.  

I buy lots of limited edition film scores, and many of these are offered as lossless downloads after the physical product sells out.

Why should Universal should not upload these?  Mosaic has zero say in the matter.

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Universal doesn't own the rights to all of the Mosaic releases.   Many of them are from other than (then) EMI sources. 

[JSngry]

Lobby the shareholders, not the stakeholders.

[Teasing the Korean]

  On 6/18/2021 at 3:36 PM, medjuck said:

Universal doesn't own the rights to all of the Mosaic releases.   Many of them are from other than (then) EMI sources. 

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I'm using Universal as an example.  

The point is that Mosaic has no bargaining power regarding what the rights holder does after the Mosaic box is gone.  

  On 6/18/2021 at 3:37 PM, JSngry said:

Lobby the shareholders, not the stakeholders.

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I have no dog in this race.  It's the shareholders' money to lose, not mine.  

[JSngry]

so why point it out if you don't care? I don't get it.

As for Mosaic's bargaining power...they are leasing the material, not buying it. Not sure under what business structure that gives them any more leverage than they've already used.

[Teasing the Korean]

  On 6/18/2021 at 3:55 PM, JSngry said:

so why point it out if you don't care? I don't get it.

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Because the historic argument about the majors not releasing older material was the time and work involved in the remastering relative to the poor sales.

This argument evaporates once the work has already been completed.  So, as a curious human being living in the 21st century, I am trying to understand the corporate argument against releasing the material digitally.  They stand only to gain and not to lose.

I used Mosaic as an example here because they generate interest among this board's demographics.  I may have used different examples elsewhere.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[Dub Modal]

I can only guess the Capitol Vaults series doesn't sell that well and so someone probably saw that which likely puts to bed any further releases. 

[JSngry]

You should ask them, maybe they understand it, or can pretend to. Me, I don't get it either, but not too much I can do about it except just keep gangsterin that shit.

Like I said, if you want to know why, ask the people who would know. That ain't us here. We all know what we need to do.

[Teasing the Korean]

  On 6/18/2021 at 4:06 PM, Dub Modal said:

I can only guess the Capitol Vaults series doesn't sell that well and so someone probably saw that which likely puts to bed any further releases. 

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Again, the work has already been done.

Universal can't find an unpaid intern to upload the files to Qobuz?  What do they possibly have to lose?

Edited June 18, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[JSngry]

  On 6/18/2021 at 4:07 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

Universal can't find an unpaid intern to upload the files to Qobuz?  What do they possibly have to lose?

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Dude, are you looking for a gig?

[Dub Modal]

I've got no answer for that other than no one there is paying attention to this and actually giving it that focus would mean they're spending time/money on something that probably doesn't turn much profit. I have to think their attention is way off in another direction. 

[Teasing the Korean]

  On 6/18/2021 at 4:11 PM, JSngry said:

Dude, are you looking for a gig?

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No, the commute would be too long.  

  On 6/18/2021 at 4:11 PM, Dub Modal said:

I've got no answer for that other than no one there is paying attention to this and actually giving it that focus would mean they're spending time/money on something that probably doesn't turn much profit. I have to think their attention is way off in another direction. 

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Agreed, although they are presumably paying someone to deal with labels like Mosaic, and also to oversee digital releases of other back-catalog titles.

  On 6/18/2021 at 4:07 PM, JSngry said:

You should ask them, maybe they understand it, or can pretend to.

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I just sent an e-mail to info@universal.com. I'll let you know when I get a response. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[JSngry]

will I live that long?

[medjuck]

  On 6/18/2021 at 4:07 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

Again, the work has already been done.

Universal can't find an unpaid intern to upload the files to Qobuz?  What do they possibly have to lose?

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Which Mosaic releases now owned by Universal have not gotten the Capital Vaults treatment?  

[JSngry]

As for "why"....I'm reminded of the old joke with the punchline "must be shit, sure glad we didn't step in it!"

I mean, it's obvious. They don't care. Even looking for/entertaining a buyer would take effort, and effort is an indicator of caring.

[crisp]

  On 6/18/2021 at 4:22 PM, medjuck said:

Which Mosaic releases now owned by Universal have not gotten the Capital Vaults treatment?  

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Off the top of my head the Teagarden, Ellington, Kenton, Goodman, Herman and Four Freshmen are unavailable for download and streaming.

Universal has made available other Mosaics from Blue Note and Verve, but there are many it hasn't. I'd like to see the Kid Ory set for example; I debated over that one when it was going oop then decided not to bite. The OP makes a good point -- why not just do it? Apathy or ignorance would be my guess.

[medjuck]

  On 6/18/2021 at 6:06 PM, crisp said:

Off the top of my head the Teagarden, Ellington, Kenton, Goodman, Herman and Four Freshmen are unavailable for download and streaming.

Universal has made available other Mosaics from Blue Note and Verve, but there are many it hasn't. I'd like to see the Kid Ory set for example; I debated over that one when it was going oop then decided not to bite. The OP makes a good point -- why not just do it? Apathy or ignorance would be my guess.

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Wow some good stuff there.  And there's that large Nat Cole Trio on Capital set as well. Are they still doing Capitol Vaults at all? 

[JSngry]

Growing the audience is not a consideration. Containing the audience is where it's at.

No different that anything else in the current social landscape, really. You will want what they give you because they give you what they want you to want. And if they get it wrong the first time, don't worry, they'll keep trying until they get it right.

But NEVER will you be encouraged to want something that they are not wanting you to have. You're on your own for that shit.