“Bird In LA”

[Brad]

3 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Anybody else have problems with the vinyl set? My LP 1 is unplayably warped and has a gouge at the end of one side. I wonder how easy it is to get a replacement disc from Verve/UMG? 

I just cracked open my set and on the second side of LP1 at the end (Salt Peanuts) there is a gouge or indentation. I played that cut and it played fine, fortunately. What annoys me however is that each of the LPs are placed in a jacket with no sleeve to protect the record. I immediately put mine into one of those rice sleeves. 

I’d contact the shop where you bought it from for starters. I doubt you’ll be able to get a replacement disc but I’d try nonetheless. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Brad

[Quasimado]

I received the cds a couple of weeks ago and feel it’s a worthwhile package. Essentially it’s an historical document of Bird's various visits to the West Coast - there is greater Bird available, so primarily it’s for completest Bird fans – I’m one of them so the sound (not great/ not too bad/ heard and enjoyed much worse) is not a problem for me. Beef is too much Harry the Hipster, included for the scene, I guess.                                                                                                                                                                   Highlights for me are the opening “How High the Moon” with Diz, Cherokee with Nat Cole (which I had from long ago), and the session with Miles and Albany. All the Bird is interesting. The slightly stoned sound of the ranch party adds to the stoned atmosphere.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Quasimado
spacing

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Quasimado said:

Beef is too much Harry the Hipster, included for the scene, I guess.                                                                                                                                                                  

That guy bugs the dogpiss out of me, even when dialoging with Slim Galliard. OTOH...."hipster"-ism has always been an annoying schtick.

I guess that Bubbles Whitman should annoy me too...he probably does but I guess I'm not realizing it yet Diddy Galippy!

But check out Al Haig!!!

[Quasimado]

Right! No "underwater" playing from Haig here (Tristano) - he's on fire! Diz is great too!

[JSngry]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2021 at 10:07 AM, John L said:

 Those three tracks were MUCH better than I expected.  Yes, Bird is clearly impaired and misfires many times.  But if you can bear to listen through that, there is actually good musical substance to enjoy.  It is a different Bird, but that's even part of what makes it musically compelling.  Genius is genius.    

A lot of musical substance!

I very seriously doubt that a lot of what some might hear as gaffes are actually that. What I here more than a few times is Bird going outside the key, outside the time, outside the place. His sound is certainly a little impaired, and his fingers are occasionally not as reflexively impeccable, but...the ideas as still genius. You hear Bird doing these types of thing later on, in the 50s, only then he's sharp.

If nothing else, his opening them of "Ornithology" is fascinating...I don't think there are but a few players ever whose "imprecision" would come out like this!

[Mark13]

Glad to have been able to pick this up (what's with the availability of the CD-version of this?), but I don't think will give this too many spins anywhere soon. I know I should not, but I find the audio really problematic. And I'm by no means an audiophile.

I realize my issues with archival releases like these are just that (MY issues), but I cannot help wondering how the artists would feel if they were around. Are we doing their artistic legacies any justice? To be sure, Bird's playing here is strong throughout, but still...

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Mark13

[hbbfam]

3 hours ago, Mark13 said:

Glad to have been able to pick this up (what's with the availability of the CD-version of this?), but I don't think will give this too many spins anywhere soon. I know I should not, but I find the audio really problematic. And I'm by no means an audiophile.

I realize my issues with archival releases like these are just that (MY issues), but I cannot help wondering how the artists would feel if they were around. Are we doing their artistic legacies any justice? To be sure, Bird's playing here is strong throughout, but still...

 

So you are questioning whether Charlie Parker would not want his music heard by future generations because the sound quality was limited by the technology of the time, the present mastering, or any other deviation from the actual sound?

[jazzbo]

I can't speak for him, but I think he may be questioning whether Bird would want every scrap of material privately or covertly recorded without his permission or review to be available. In his case as he didn't seem to contest Benedetti and others recording him as they did perhaps he just didn't care. All artists may not feel or have felt similarly.

[Niko]

interesting questions... just imagine Bird would have lived for 10 years more and ended up with a discography like Monk's, a series of nice albums for Riverside and then another series for Columbia or Impulse, maybe with a single Blue Note album like Blue Train or Something Else thrown in... would there be much of a market for something like Bird in LA, i.e., would we value early live material in dubious sound quality as much as we do (provided that we do)? Re Benedetti, I find it easy to imagine Bird not minding at all... but: I don't think Bird saw the Benedetti Mosaic coming when he allowed Benedetti to sit in a corner with his recording equipment...

[Brad]

It’s impossible to know. Some artists do care, others don’t. Their legacies aren’t negatively affected by these releases. I’m glad I have the Benedetti. Bird’s playing at the Three Deuces and Onyx Club is quite strong

[JSngry]

Bird, Trane, Hendrix, and Miles all playing together on an electric Miles session arranged by Gil Evans, with guest vocal on "Little Wing" by Billie Holliday.

Birth Of The Cruell.

[jazzbo]

I think Bird was canny enough to know that the discs Dean recorded could be circulated, he knew the level of his ingenuity and acclaim. I bet he could envision them being bootlegged and/or released officially. . . and I think he would have not objected strongly. Just my hunch. We won't know.

[Gheorghe]

On 6.12.2021 at 2:54 PM, Quasimado said:

I received the cds a couple of weeks ago and feel it’s a worthwhile package. Essentially it’s an historical document of Bird's various visits to the West Coast - there is greater Bird available, so primarily it’s for completest Bird fans – I’m one of them so the sound (not great/ not too bad/ heard and enjoyed much worse) is not a problem for me. Beef is too much Harry the Hipster, included for the scene, I guess.                                                                                                                                                                   Highlights for me are the opening “How High the Moon” with Diz, Cherokee with Nat Cole (which I had from long ago), and the session with Miles and Albany. All the Bird is interesting. The slightly stoned sound of the ranch party adds to the stoned atmosphere.

 

The Bird-Albany Session I already had on Spotlite LP "Yardbird in Lotusland". Miles sounds very much Dizzy influenced here, much more than on other occasions. Joe Albany, well for my tastes it sounds a bit "edgy". It´s some interesting ideas, but it sounds a bit like if a classical trained person tries to play bop, thinking that if you play more cromatic lines it is bop. 

 

On 6.12.2021 at 4:15 PM, JSngry said:

That guy bugs the dogpiss out of me, even when dialoging with Slim Galliard. OTOH...."hipster"-ism has always been an annoying schtick.

I guess that Bubbles Whitman should annoy me too...he probably does but I guess I'm not realizing it yet Diddy Galippy!

But check out Al Haig!!!

Ernie Bubbles Whitman "the stomach that walks like a man"....... 
Well, it might annoy me too since I´m too much into the MUSIC I want to hear, but it is part of the game and when the Spotlite LP "Mr B. and the Band" came out, me and my friend played it so often and while sittin in the boat fishing we sometimes would try to imitate Whitman´s" voice...... "Thank youuuuuuu......" 

[medjuck]

I already had almost everything on this set (except of course the now unissued until JATP) but this is  by far the best sounding and most complete of pretty well every session.

[JSngry]

23 minutes ago, medjuck said:

...this is  by far the best sounding and most complete of pretty well every session.

Yeah, I'm really not getting the complaints about sound quality on this release...maybe a bumpy patch or two along the way, but nothing prolonged. and if you have gone deep with Bird, you know there's sea to shining sea examples of FAR worse than this.

[jazzbo]

I now have both the Japanese and the US versions and I was very surprised that the US RSD version sounds better than the UHQCD version from Japan. Just a bit more than subtly different. If one heard the Japanese alone one might have more reason to be dissatisfied with the sound.

But yes, this sounds better than other versions of some of it that I have heard. 

[Mark13]

On 9-12-2021 at 6:06 PM, JSngry said:

Yeah, I'm really not getting the complaints about sound quality on this release...maybe a bumpy patch or two along the way, but nothing prolonged. and if you have gone deep with Bird, you know there's sea to shining sea examples of FAR worse than this.

'Sea to shining sea...' Now, that's A LOT.

All of which I have managed to avoid so far. Beginners-luck I guess. But if it takes navigating these seas to go deep (enough) with Bird, count me out. My interest is not academic, nor am I in it for the satisfaction of collector's ego. Which is known to exist. And prevail over the interests of artists.

Be that as it may, I've listened to it once again and I just wished that I could enjoy this a little more.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mark13

[John L]

4 hours ago, Mark13 said:

'Sea to shining sea...' Now, that's A LOT.

All of which I have managed to avoid so far. Beginners-luck I guess. But if it takes navigating these seas to go deep (enough) with Bird, count me out. My interest is not academic, nor am I in it for the satisfaction of collector's ego. Which is known to exist. And prevail over the interests of artists.

Be that as it may, I've listened to it once again and I just wished that I could enjoy this a little more.

That is understandable.  Most of us here have accustomed our ears to hearing and enjoying lower fidelity recordings that have special musical content. As long as it is audible, It is almost as if we can replay it in our heads in Hi Fi.   But it takes getting used to.    

[JSngry]

I have learned to tell the difference between what a record sounds like and what music really is.

Learned...it was a process, but with bird, I only hear air-shots for a few years...by then, the studio dates often seemed anticlimactic.

I got over that too. It was also a process.

 

[Brad]

On 12/12/2021 at 6:24 AM, Mark13 said:

'Sea to shining sea...' Now, that's A LOT.

All of which I have managed to avoid so far. Beginners-luck I guess. But if it takes navigating these seas to go deep (enough) with Bird, count me out. My interest is not academic, nor am I in it for the satisfaction of collector's ego. Which is known to exist. And prevail over the interests of artists.

Be that as it may, I've listened to it once again and I just wished that I could enjoy this a little more.

You have to tune it out. Maybe like Jim says, it’s a process. This is not a Bird recording but I have Barry Harris’ Bird of Red and Gold on Xanadu. Thought I had a terrible pressing but when I heard the memorial broadcast on WKCR on Saturday theirs was just as bad but the defects didn’t bother me because the music is glorious. You have to separate the two. 

[Brad]

I just got around to listening to the set today and the sound is more than acceptable. Nothing wrong with the sound on the Billy Berg material. The Zorthian Ranch material is not terrible, certainly listenable. I purchased the LP set and there are a few pops here and there so the manufacturing process could have been better but not the end of the world.

Getting back for a second to the question of whether Bird would want this material to be released, at the Onyx Club (or the Three Deuces, I forget which), Bird interceded with the management to allow Benedetti to record him so he obviously knew that the tapes would be available for listening. 

[Gheorghe]

Finally my copy arrived yesterday. Of course I still hadn´t the time to listen to it. Anyway, some of the Billy Berg tracks and the Finale Club tracks I already have on the Spotlight LP "Yardbird in Lotusland", but I want to have time to listen to it closely and then I might write my own review of it (should I do it here or as a separate thread on "Recomandations" ?)

One funny story for you all: 

Since I had ordered it last summer, anyway very shortly after I read about it here on this thread , it took so much time until I got it yesterday. As the shipping adress is "Austria" I´m sure it happened "once again" that they confounded Austria with Australia. Austria is a small country, and not all people overseas have heard of it and sometimes when we were on holyday in more exotic destinations and they asked us were we from and answered "Austria", they said "Oh Yeah, cangoroos, koala bears, crocodile Dundie" . 

When we were bored from this, we might mention our "second home" and would say "România".....AND..... they know it, they say "oh, Football, Dracula" . Anyway in countries of latin based languages they understand some words and we might understand some of what they say in spanish, french, italian etc....

But to go for sure, when sittin at the bar or having sun at the pool, if we are asked where we come from, if we say "Austria" we add: The Country where the "Mozart-Kugel" (Mozart ball) was created

Edited January 5, 2022 by Gheorghe

[romualdo]

18 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Since I had ordered it last summer, anyway very shortly after I read about it here on this thread , it took so much time until I got it yesterday. As the shipping adress is "Austria" I´m sure it happened "once again" that they confounded Austria with Australia. Austria is a small country, and not all people overseas have heard of it and sometimes when we were on holyday in more exotic destinations and they asked us were we from and answered "Austria", they said "Oh Yeah, cangoroos, koala bears, crocodile Dundie" . 

 

Gheorghe, same thing has happened to me here in Australia but in reverse.

My brother's partner, who is German used to wear a cap advertising Austria with a kangaroo logo & a line through it plus the script "Austria - No Kangaroos"

BTW, I received my Bird in LA double disc a couple of days ago - I'm pleasantly surprised by the SQ - the source materials (acetates, AFRS Jubilee pristine discs, second gen tape for the ranch sessions etc) make these versions far superior to any previous releases.

I also have a good idea what would have been on the flexi/7" that came with the Bird in LA graphic novel - I'd say it was the three (or two) tracks from the previously unreleased JATP Shrine Auditorium 48 set where CP is playing stoned/pissed & quite out of it.

The LP version (don't know why anyone would want this version except maybe for the larger & readable booklet - the CD version is tiny) is receiving multiple complaints on discogs

16 Dec 2021

My first copy had a vinyl dimple on record, which made my needle bounce I work in a record store where we had a few copies. I returned it got a second copy. The second is the dirtiest new record I have ever seen. There is a lot of terrible junk all over these records. cleaned it, sounds good .... but this is awful Quality Control !!!

 

It’s a mixed bag. Given these recordings started at 1945 it’s impressive to say the least. Just don’t go in thinking this a Audiophile Jazz recording. Some sections sound great, others not so much. The vinyl itself was dirty, after a cleaning it played fine with the normal amount of pops and clicks throughout. The box is pretty nice.

 

Sounds good and a nice package but every LP was dirty/discolored and full of fingerprints. I was surprised it sounded as good as it does. Not sure where it was pressed (not on the shrink so it’s definitely not somewhere worth mentioning). Quality control is lacking

[Gheorghe]

Now my impressions after listening to the two CDs : 

The first CD is wonderful. 

Indeed there is more material from the Billy Berg Gig, this was Diz and Bird at it´s best, like the Town Hall 1945. And it´s well enough recorded. Only one thing: Sometimes it sounds like if Stan Levy does the bass drum all the time so you can´t hear Ray Brown´s bass, especially on Groovin´ High, in the old style like Gene Krupa, am I right ? 
Al Haig is very well recorded and it´s a great thing to hear all soloists. Al Haig in 1945 already had a great tehnique but still sounds a bit stiff. 

The Finale Club 1946 was already on Yardbird in Lotus Land. Very fine Bird and Miles, Miles muted all through and very very Gillespie influenced at that time. Joe Albany......well that sounds really strange. Somehow it sounds like I sounded when I started and after listening to it on tape I always was puzzled, I wanted to sound like a bop pianist, but what came out was not what I would have liked to hear or to produce. And more experienced players told me to "get that edge off". It must have been the same situation, and now reading the liner notes and reading that Bird was not pleased with it and called Dodo Mamorosa for the studio date, it becomes very clear for me. 

The 3 tunes from Shrine Auditorium 1948. Many said it´s very very weak Bird. Well, it sounds exactly like on "Bird on 52nd Street" also from 1948. Bird sometimes plays shorter phrases and seems to have fun with it or joking a bit. I was not aware that it means Bird was drunk or stoned or whatever. I like it and my opinion is that you could imagine that this way of playing influenced Ornette Coleman. Tell me if you share my impression. 

The Rhythm Section on the 1948 tracks  is wonderful !!!! Al Haig again, but listen how much progress he made since 1945. Here he is perfect and I really enjoy it. He got it all and it´s clear why Bud said that "Al Haig is his idea of a perfect pianist ". Tommy Potter sounds wonderful and is very well recorded, and his solo on "Out of Nowhere" is just beautiful. He didn´t solo often, but he is the ideal bassist of the bop era. And J.C. Heard is a great drummer. He played with Diz in 1946 and I witnessed a wonderful re-union between Diz and J.C. Heard in 1983 when Diz used him as drummer. That was the best Diz I ever saw live with a moving version of Round Midnight, together with the fantastic Ed Cherry and Mike Howell.

The second CD was very very difficult to listen to. I´m not the kind of collector who might listen to all stuff. That´s the worst recording sound I ever heard. At least you can hear Bird well, and the rare occasion to hear Frank Morgan. Don Wilkinson is very fine and seems to have been a bit influenced by Wardell Gray. So the line up is great. 
But you virtually can´t hear the bass and it sounds like a duo of Larence Marable (who was a very good drummer I think I heard him on better recorded sessions with other musicians, also in LA) and the horn player. 
And sometimes it seems they are not together at all or is it the fault of the terrible recording quality ? Instead of the bass you hear such a deep blurred sound that really hurt me and let me feel like if I had a Tinnitus. 
There is one short item with a drum beat that reminds me of the rhythms Ornette Coleman´s "Prime Time" did, with some short phrases by Bird. Very interesting to hear such a similar to rock beat as early as 1952. 
Only the last track recorded 2 weeks later has a much better sound quality . 

I´m not an audiophile, but if a recording sounds really painful, I mean literally painful for my ears that anyway get worse, I say I will spin CD 1 very often but I doubt I would ever spin again the CD 2.  

[jcam_44]

On 1/6/2022 at 6:19 PM, romualdo said:16 Dec 2021

 

My first copy had a vinyl dimple on record, which made my needle bounce I work in a record store where we had a few copies. I returned it got a second copy. The second is the dirtiest new record I have ever seen. There is a lot of terrible junk all over these records. cleaned it, sounds good .... but this is awful Quality Control !!!

 

It’s a mixed bag. Given these recordings started at 1945 it’s impressive to say the least. Just don’t go in thinking this a Audiophile Jazz recording. Some sections sound great, others not so much. The vinyl itself was dirty, after a cleaning it played fine with the normal amount of pops and clicks throughout. The box is pretty nice.

 

Sounds good and a nice package but every LP was dirty/discolored and full of fingerprints. I was surprised it sounded as good as it does. Not sure where it was pressed (not on the shrink so it’s definitely not somewhere worth mentioning). Quality control is lacking

People on discogs are funny. I actually have never gotten upset that a record is dirty. I clean every record before I spin it anyway. You would think someone spending the money they were asking for this set would know that’s the cost of buying vinyl. 
 

I would expect a record from the Electric Recording company to be clean but that’s a $500 new record.