Who had the hippest, coolest stage manner?

[Alexander Hawkins]

Bev Stapleton Posted on May 14 2005, 09:08 PM

  Bugger 'hip' or 'cool'.

Give me a musician who is warm, friendly, approachable, humble towards their audience.

A couple of weeks back I saw Enrico Rava's band play an exquisite set, shorn of any 'hip' or 'cool'; great playing accompanied by a willingness to connect with the audience between numbers.

Worth a million affected 'cools'. 

By the way, I completely agree with this. Affectation on stage is appalling, and completely not what the music's about. I just interpreted the question in the thread more loosely, I think!

[Jim R]

I can't believe no one mentioned Monk.

Monk was mentioned.

[marcello]

This is a cool topic!

No offense friends, but should this not be restricted to personal expierence.

Stage presence has to be witnessed first hand.

Everyone has off nights but I always heard that Lena Horne had commanding presence on stage. When I went to see her once and I foud her manner to be forced and stagey.

Now for the ultimate cliche', I saw Miles many times from 1968 on, from small rooms to large, and he was almost always great. Once he really stunk up the joint for a week. Every night!

But on another occaision in 1973, he was everything everyone has always talked about. Riviting, and in full command of the stage and the audience. Powerful and intense; cool and swagering.

[mikeweil]

Among those I saw live:

Dexter Gordon - the incarnation of cool hipness

Eddie Harris - he had a cold, so he was not in top form, but ...

[Dan Gould]

This is a cool topic!

No offense friends, but should this not be restricted to personal expierence.

Stage presence has to be witnessed first hand.

I disagree, because I never saw Dexter Gordon in person but I've listened to his stage announcements on a countless number of recordings and seen brief videotape of him, and I think its fair to base my judgement on that exposure.

[marcello]

I respect your opinion Dan, but how you can relate stage presence if you are not in the same room?

You can get a inkling, but it's gotta be live!

[Kalo]

Ellington, I'd say.

He was in a whole 'nother realm of cool, several levels beyond anyone else.

The case has been made that Lester Young INVENTED cool.

[Jazz Kat]

I respect your opinion Dan, but how you can relate stage presence if you are not in the same room?

You can get a inkling, but it's gotta be live!

Dan, Marcello. Both good points. Live=better. But pictures= you can get the idea of how they look and act on stage. Manner, you can tell from pictures. The music, you can not!

[chris olivarez]

I guy I saw who I think qualifies is Paul Butterfield.

[wolff]

From "Charles Mingus Presents..."

"Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, we'd like to remind you that we don't applaud here at the Showplace, or where we're working. So restrain your applause and, if you must applaud, wait till the end of the set - and it won't even matter then...In fact, don't even take any drinks, I want no cash register ringing. Et cetera!"

Wasn't this just made up for an in the studio date to bring about the feeling of a live date?

[wesbed]

I can't believe no one mentioned Monk. He was the strangest of them all!

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...ndpost&p=137831

[Soul Stream]

Big John was a natural on stage. Down home, witty, spiritual...all at once.

[Tony Pusey]

How about Dan Hicks (of Hot Licks fame)?

[JSngry]

Bugger 'hip' or 'cool'.

Give me a musician who is warm, friendly, approachable, humble towards their audience.

A couple of weeks back I saw Enrico Rava's band play an exquisite set, shorn of any 'hip' or 'cool'; great playing accompanied by a willingness to connect with the audience between numbers.

Worth a million affected 'cools'.

Yeah, affected cool is anything but cool.

Natural cool, otoh, rules. But you can't fake it.

On that front, if we can awards an award for "collective cool", I'll nominate the Basie band of the 60s and early 70s.

[sidewinder]

Of the artists I have seen, Miles, Sun Ra and Buddy Rich come immediately to mind. All 3 had incredible stage presence and charisma. Miles gets the vote though..

[A Lark Ascending]

Natural cool, otoh, rules. But you can't fake it.

Give me 'warm' over 'cool' any day.

Cool = detachment, playing to an insider code, exclusivity, elitism, affecting an 'in the know' stance.

Understandable in children.

Ridiculous in adults.

[Dan Gould]

Give me 'warm' over 'cool' any day.

Cool = detachment, playing to an insider code, exclusivity, elitism, affecting an 'in the know' stance.

Not true. Dexter Gordon certainly comes across as a very warm personality, but his stage announcements and demeanor are the height of cool.

[A Lark Ascending]

Give me 'warm' over 'cool' any day.

Cool = detachment, playing to an insider code, exclusivity, elitism, affecting an 'in the know' stance.

Not true. Dexter Gordon certainly comes across as a very warm personality, but his stage announcements and demeanor are the height of cool.

Perhaps a definition of 'cool' is necessary.

I've always assumed 'cool' excludes 'warmth'.

If by 'cool' poise is meant - an ability to carry things off seemingly without effort or affectation - then I'm fine with it.

But the term is frequently used to suggest being ahead of the game in finding the next big thing but moving on before it becomes the next big thing; or being able to access something that is beyond mere mortals. In that sense 'cool' is all about style, not substance.

There might be a cross-Atlantic divide on this. Jazz 'cool' was mercilessly pilloried here in a comedy show ('The Fast Show') in the 90s. The best you'll get from UK musicians is ironic mockery of 'cool'. They'd be laughed off the stage for exhibiting any of the mannerisms associated with jazz 'cool'.

Edited May 15, 2005 by Bev Stapleton

[Alexander Hawkins]

Bev Stapleton Posted on May 15 2005, 08:58 PM

  QUOTE (Dan Gould @ May 15 2005, 08:40 PM)

QUOTE (Bev Stapleton @ May 15 2005, 03:20 PM)

Give me 'warm' over 'cool' any day.

Cool = detachment, playing to an insider code, exclusivity, elitism, affecting an 'in the know' stance.

Not true. Dexter Gordon certainly comes across as a very warm personality, but his stage announcements and demeanor are the height of cool. 

Perhaps a definition of 'cool' is necessary.

I've always assumed 'cool' excludes 'warmth'.

If by 'cool' poise is meant - an ability to carry things off seemingly without effort or affectation - then I'm fine with it.

But the term is frequently used to suggest being ahead of the game in finding the next big thing but moving on before it becomes the next big thing; or being able to access something that is beyond mere mortals. In that sense 'cool' is all about style, not substance.

There might be a cross-Atlantic divide on this. Jazz 'cool' was mercilessly pilloried here in a comedy show ('The Fast Show') in the 90s. The best you'll get from UK musicians is ironic mockery of 'cool'. They'd be laughed off the stage for exhibiting any of the mannerisms associated with jazz 'cool'. 

I think that Fast Show sketch is the bane of any British jazz musician's life..!

My initial reaction to your last couple of sentences was that that couldn't be the case, and wasn't my experience, but in fairness, I'm short on examples...

I think there are maybe other attitudes in musicians over here I dislike. Especially some of the younger college players.

[A Lark Ascending]

My initial reaction to your last couple of sentences was that that couldn't be the case, and wasn't my experience, but in fairness, I'm short on examples...

If I think of people like John Surman, John Taylor, Keith Tippett, Mike Westbrook, Stan Tracey I just don't see any 'attitude' at all. Tracey can be a bit grumpy but in general there's a politeness there, a respect for the audience, a lack of self-consciousness.

'Cool' and 'hip' seem to be about being very aware of how one cuts it in company, somehow keeping a step ahead. There's a narcissism about it.

As I say, understandable in adolescents; ripe for ridicule in adults.

[Dan Gould]

As you say, there is most definitely a cross-Atlantic divide on the word "cool":

Used for the purposes of this thread, "cool" is best epitomized by this man:

It has nothing to do with affectation, or being too hip for the audience.

[A Lark Ascending]

As you say, there is most definitely a cross-Atlantic divide on the word "cool":

Used for the purposes of this thread, "cool" is best epitomized by this man:

It has nothing to do with affectation, or being too hip for the audience.

You mean Henry Winkler was intended to be a role model?

I always thought he was meant to be sending up hipsterism. More cross-Atlantic signal distortion.

For a role model I much preferred:

[clinthopson]

I'm not sure if he would be in the "cool" category, but Ken Peplowski is a gas.

[Dan Gould]

As you say, there is most definitely a cross-Atlantic divide on the word "cool":

Used for the purposes of this thread, "cool" is best epitomized by this man:

It has nothing to do with affectation, or being too hip for the audience.

You mean Henry Winkler was intended to be a role model?

I always thought he was meant to be sending up hipsterism. More cross-Atlantic signal distortion.

For a role model I much preferred:

This is ridiculous. Now we're getting into role models? "Cool" as it is used for the purposes of this thread, has nothing to do with being a role model. Only a select few are "cool" and they are certainly not an every man like Barney Rubble.

Talk about cross-atlantic distortion: perhaps you should excuse yourself from this particular discussion of "cool" because clearly you are the one person who does not get what everyone else has no trouble with.

BTW, thanks for the demonstration of "two people separated by a common language".

[A Lark Ascending]

Thanks for the 'cool' response.

Dude!