Mingus at Carnegie Hall, Deluxe Edition

[JSngry]

I really have to wonder how tight the band was...Mingus was not yet "hollering at the band again", to use Sue's memorable description of when all the over-medication regime receded...

and a lot of talk from him at the time about how he had a band full of players who went straight for out and didn't bother with the changes...I can kinda hear that on the jams, where Rahsaan sort of pointedly "schools" George Adams about that...

I'm fully prepared to be let down by this one,, but hey, it's Mingus. I've never not bought a Mingus record, never, and I have no intention of stopping now.

[kh1958]

Your timing is off. The medicated/somewhat passive Mingus was the time of the earlier band with Bobby Jones. Full strength Mingus in 1974.

[JSngry]

I read that Sue quote...where? I thought it was around the time of the Changes albums? Later in 1974 (December) than this one, from January. Seems to me that a lot happened in 1974, noticeably the jettisoning of Bluiett, who, as much as I love him in other places, did not seem like a "Mingus" type player. Plenty of blues, but not a lot of bebop/change type playing. This music demanded both. Adams/Pullen, yes, synergy. But Bluiett added to that mix? hmmmmmmmmmm.....

Either way...From Let My Children hear Music, there was not another truly great (i.w. - epic) Mingus record until the two Changes records. This Carnegie Hall record...if the band cuts were truly together, I think that jam session record might not have come out, or at least not all by itself, and definitely not unchanged for almost 50 years. Maybe they jsut got a not-great recodcinging, maybe the band was not gelled good.

We'll see and I'll be glad to be wrong.

[kh1958]

Well, I've wanted to hear the first set of that concert since late 1974-early-1975 when Mingus at Carnegie Hall came out. So thank you to whoever is responsible.

[RiRiIII]

On 30/4/2021 at 8:07 PM, felser said:

+1 (and you can add in 1969, their debut album and Woodstock breakthrough), but Sony is not that enlightened.  That being said, don't miss the Japanese deluxe edition of Lotus with the extra cuts and improved audio.

on LP too from Mofi but made for Japan. Still available. Using the same transfers as the SACD deluxe edition you mentioned. Impressive package.

 

[RiRiIII]

On 28/4/2021 at 0:36 AM, Guy Berger said:

Rhino is apparently releasing a 2 CD deluxe version of this album.  Am I correct that except for 2 tracks nothing on here is previously released?

 

 

 

Tracklist:

* A1. INTRODUCTION [3:11]

* A2. PEGGY’S BLUE SKYLIGHT [11:54]

* B1. CELIA [22:54]

* C1. FABLES OF FAUBUS [20:51]

* D1. BIG ALICE [18:39]

E1. PERDIDO [22:32]

F1. C JAM BLUES [24:41]

(*) 77 min of unreleased music

[felser]

3 hours ago, RiRiIII said:

Tracklist:

* A1. INTRODUCTION [3:11]

* A2. PEGGY’S BLUE SKYLIGHT [11:54]

* B1. CELIA [22:54]

* C1. FABLES OF FAUBUS [20:51]

* D1. BIG ALICE [18:39]

E1. PERDIDO [22:32]

F1. C JAM BLUES [24:41]

(*) 77 min of unreleased music

Correct.  Thx for the cut info!

[felser]

Here's some more from theseconddisc.com.  Note that Michael Cuscuna did the liner notes.  Also note the gaffe in the next to last sentence (in red).

Friday, June 11:

Charles Mingus, Mingus At Carnegie Hall (Deluxe Edition) (2CD) (Amazon U.S. / Amazon U.K. / Amazon Canada)

The late Charles Mingus’ January 19, 1974 concert at Carnegie Hall featuring sidemen George Adams, Hamiet Bluiett, Don Pullen, and Dannie Richmond as well as guest artists Jon Faddis, Jon Handy, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, and Charles McPherson was originally released by Atlantic Records with just two lengthy encore songs – “C Jam Blues” and “Perdido” – each occupying one side of vinyl.  Now, after 47 years, the entire show is being released by Run Out Groove on CD and LP, with 74 minutes of previously unreleased music from the late composer-leader-saxophonist.  It’s all been mastered from the original tapes, and the package features new liner notes by historian Michael Cuscuna to place it all into context.

[Late]

I just caved and pre-ordered ...

[Jazzmonkie]

Pre-ordered CD from Bullmoose for $14.97 tax free.

[tranemonk]

Thanks. I'll have to check this one out...  

[Gheorghe]

On 2.5.2021 at 4:10 AM, JSngry said:

I read that Sue quote...where? I thought it was around the time of the Changes albums? Later in 1974 (December) than this one, from January. Seems to me that a lot happened in 1974, noticeably the jettisoning of Bluiett, who, as much as I love him in other places, did not seem like a "Mingus" type player. Plenty of blues, but not a lot of bebop/change type playing. This music demanded both. Adams/Pullen, yes, synergy. But Bluiett added to that mix? hmmmmmmmmmm.....

Either way...From Let My Children hear Music, there was not another truly great (i.w. - epic) Mingus record until the two Changes records. This Carnegie Hall record...if the band cuts were truly together, I think that jam session record might not have come out, or at least not all by itself, and definitely not unchanged for almost 50 years. Maybe they jsut got a not-great recodcinging, maybe the band was not gelled good.

We'll see and I'll be glad to be wrong.

Thanks Jim for your impressions, which are quite similar as I saw it. Especially about that  period between " Let My Children Hear Music" and "Changes One/Two). That 1972 stuff , a double album also for Columbia is not really exiting. Same about "Mingus Moves". Well, the 1974 jam is quite fun and it was quite exiting for me when it came out.

But the really great band, and when Mingus became "his old self" again, as Sue said, was the "Changes 1/2 band" and after that the "Walrath-Ford-Neloms-Mingus-Richmond band, that many of us saw live in 1977. Many other musicians of his generation kept the same songs for the rest of their career, but in 1977 he did brand new things like "Three or Four Shades of Blues" and "Cumbia", which sounded much more interesting live with the quintet, that was really, really together, and Walrath has become a fantastic trumpet player. 

[jazzbo]

On 5/2/2021 at 10:49 PM, kh1958 said:

Well, I've wanted to hear the first set of that concert since late 1974-early-1975 when Mingus at Carnegie Hall came out. So thank you to whoever is responsible.

+1

[felser]

I like "Moves" and the two albums with McPherson/Jones/Hiller quite a bit, but not on the level of Children or Changes, which are utter classics.

[barnaba.siegel]

On 30.04.2021 at 7:07 PM, felser said:

+1 (and you can add in 1969, their debut album and Woodstock breakthrough), but Sony is not that enlightened.  That being said, don't miss the Japanese deluxe edition of Lotus with the extra cuts and improved audio.

At one point Santana team asked fans through social media about some bootlegs, like they were having a lot and completing missing shows. I thought it's all for a splendid, King Crimson box style release that will appear some day. Well, I guess about 8 years passed and still nothing.

[Gheorghe]

8 hours ago, felser said:

I like "Moves" and the two albums with McPherson/Jones/Hiller quite a bit, but not on the level of Children or Changes, which are utter classics.

The albums with McPherson, Bobby Jones ? Are you talking about the two 1970 albums for the french label "America". 
They are titled "Blue Bird" and "Pyticanthropus Erectus". But on those I think it´s not Lonnie Hillyer on trumpet, it´s an "Eddie Preston" who is somewhat below the other really giants McPherson, Bobby Jones and the great great Jakie Byard. 

I like those albums, even if they don´t have the fire of the 60´s or of the great bands from 1975 on. 
"I left my Heart in San Francisco" is really nice, Pyticantropus Erectus is somewhat more subdued that it was supposed to be played. "Love is a Dangerous Necessity" is really interesting, the hornes without other instruments, it sounds like a forerunner of "Music for Todo Modo" if you listen close to it. 

I haven´t listened to "Move" for a long time. There might be two compositions done by the other members, "Flowers to a Lady" by Adams, and "Newcomer" by Pullen. I liked "Newcomer" and heard it live in 1980 with George Adams-Don Pullen-Cameron Brown-Dannie Richmond. 
The other stuff........aaah, some "Opus" which is nothing else then something based on "Pyticantropus Erectus", "Canon" had bored me, and the vocals, not really my stuff. And I think it was the first album on which Richmond played again with Mingus after some years of Rock´n Roll or something like that. 

[felser]

6 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

The albums with McPherson, Bobby Jones ? Are you talking about the two 1970 albums for the french label "America". 
They are titled "Blue Bird" and "Pyticanthropus Erectus". But on those I think it´s not Lonnie Hillyer on trumpet, it´s an "Eddie Preston" who is somewhat below the other really giants McPherson, Bobby Jones and the great great Jakie Byard. 

I like those albums, even if they don´t have the fire of the 60´s or of the great bands from 1975 on. 
"I left my Heart in San Francisco" is really nice, Pyticantropus Erectus is somewhat more subdued that it was supposed to be played. "Love is a Dangerous Necessity" is really interesting, the hornes without other instruments, it sounds like a forerunner of "Music for Todo Modo" if you listen close to it. 

I haven´t listened to "Move" for a long time. There might be two compositions done by the other members, "Flowers to a Lady" by Adams, and "Newcomer" by Pullen. I liked "Newcomer" and heard it live in 1980 with George Adams-Don Pullen-Cameron Brown-Dannie Richmond. 
The other stuff........aaah, some "Opus" which is nothing else then something based on "Pyticantropus Erectus", "Canon" had bored me, and the vocals, not really my stuff. And I think it was the first album on which Richmond played again with Mingus after some years of Rock´n Roll or something like that. 

Yes, those America albums.Eddie Preston, who I am otherwise unfamiliar with.  As for 'Moves', here's what to remember.  Hearing it now, it's easy to say that it's just a transitional dry run for the 'Changes' albums, which is true.  But I heard and digested it before the 'Changes' albums were recorded, and it was fairly stunning at that time, with the introduction of Adams and Pullen into the group.   They were very fresh, striking new voices at that point.

[JSngry]

For me, Moves was "hopeful". Changes was hope rewarded.

[kh1958]

I find Mingus Moves to be a very compelling, if flawed, album. One of those albums that, when I bought it in 1974, playing the first side, it was immediately gripping and it was clear this was what I was looking for in music. A brilliant if imperfect (compared to Changes) album, in my opinion.

Edited May 19, 2021 by kh1958

[Dub Modal]

I love Moves. Don't have Changes. Now I need Changes...natch 

[Gheorghe]

Yes, Changes is fantastic. Only one thing I might mention from my own point of view:

The "Orange ist the Colour of Her Dress" is not as great as the versions with Dolphy and Byard. 

[kh1958]

Different point of view here: the version of Orange... on Changes is the best version.

[felser]

5 hours ago, kh1958 said:

Different point of view here: the version of Orange... on Changes is the best version.

+1

[kh1958]

https://londonjazznews.com/2021/06/07/charles-mingus-live-at-carnegie-hall-deluxe-edition/

[hbbfam]

Anybody get a chance to listen to this yet?