Covid Vaccination Poll Update

[mjazzg]

I often wonder how the so-called non-mainstream media has the resources to carry out all the investigations that they apparently do, so successfully.  Happy to be enlightened.

[riddlemay]

Call me naïve, call me uninformed, but I can't see what difference it makes--to us in America--whether it escaped from a Chinese lab or a Chinese wet market.

It's not like we have any leverage to impose tighter security precautions either on Chinese labs or wet markets.

Either way, the moral obligation for China to have shared more information sooner is the same. Not that we have much control over that, either.

[JSngry]

I'll call you a realist 

[bogdan101]

If it was engineered in a lab it gives an idea of what exactly they're doing in there; you and me will probably never know either way, but I'm sure some level of government knows pretty well what happened.

[Guy Berger]

3 hours ago, riddlemay said:

Call me naïve, call me uninformed, but I can't see what difference it makes--to us in America--whether it escaped from a Chinese lab or a Chinese wet market.

It's not like we have any leverage to impose tighter security precautions either on Chinese labs or wet markets.

Either way, the moral obligation for China to have shared more information sooner is the same. Not that we have much control over that, either.

Yup

I think there are politicians trying to lever this question toward their agenda, unfortunately, and to some degree it is also feeding into anti-Asian-American racism here ni the US

[Kevin Bresnahan]

The state of Maine is going to have a lottery. Everyone who gets vaccinated can enter. For however many people get vaccinated by July 4th, they are giving away that amount to one lucky vaccinated resident. It's up to almost $900,000 now.

[Guy Berger]

Cases seem to be rising across much of the country due to the Delta variant.  Seems to be worse in relative low vaccination states though seasonal effects may also be playing a role.

If you haven’t gotten vaccinated yet, it’s a good idea to do it ASAP.

The good news is in high vaccination areas caseloads should be lower and less dangerous.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Guy Berger

[Guy Berger]

For example Britain has seen a huge surge in cases but, unlike prior COVID waves, no meaningful pickup in deaths.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Guy Berger

[BillF]

5 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

For example Britain has seen a huge surge in cases but, unlike prior COVID waves, no meaningful pickup in deaths.

Not yet ...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/09/dread-and-anxiety-among-nhs-staff-as-covid-cases-surge-again

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by BillF

[mjazzg]

The bigger concern is that as community infection rates increase, and we have a government for whom that appears to be policy now, there is a greater likelihood of the virus mutating into new variants.  Once again, previous experience is being ignored as the Kent variant appeared the last time community infection rates got out if control. Government gambling again...

[rostasi]

The stark reality that is Delta, Delta+, and Lambda right now…

[BillF]

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

The bigger concern is that as community infection rates increase, and we have a government for whom that appears to be policy now, there is a greater likelihood of the virus mutating into new variants.  Once again, previous experience is being ignored as the Kent variant appeared the last time community infection rates got out if control. Government gambling again...

[Pim]

We almost had everything under control here with only around 500 new cases a day. And the number of people in hospital dropping from more than 2000 to only around 200. Everything went on smoothly with the release of restrictions: opening shops, restaurants and museums. Then, under pressure of all these mindless Covid deniers they decided to open up nightclubs, bars and festivals again. Within a week were back at 10.000 contaminations a day. Hospital cases are still low but this would probably change as well. Our country will probably be code red within a few days and then I have to cancel my vacation to Italy for the second time. This really sucks.

[Guy Berger]

On 7/10/2021 at 0:20 AM, BillF said:

Not yet ...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/09/dread-and-anxiety-among-nhs-staff-as-covid-cases-surge-again

 

Not yet, but in prior cycles we would have seen the surge in hospitalizations and deaths happening by this point.

On 7/10/2021 at 2:04 AM, mjazzg said:

The bigger concern is that as community infection rates increase, and we have a government for whom that appears to be policy now, there is a greater likelihood of the virus mutating into new variants.  Once again, previous experience is being ignored as the Kent variant appeared the last time community infection rates got out if control. Government gambling again...

Not something I would have said pre-vaccine but... we're sort of reaching the point where COVID really is comparable to the flu in places where vaccines are widely available.  I think vaccine passports coupled with a differential restriction regime are a good idea (especially when/where there is a lot of community restriction), but the odds on this gamble are much more favorable than they were in the past.

On 7/10/2021 at 8:04 AM, Pim said:

We almost had everything under control here with only around 500 new cases a day. And the number of people in hospital dropping from more than 2000 to only around 200. Everything went on smoothly with the release of restrictions: opening shops, restaurants and museums. Then, under pressure of all these mindless Covid deniers they decided to open up nightclubs, bars and festivals again. Within a week were back at 10.000 contaminations a day. Hospital cases are still low but this would probably change as well. Our country will probably be code red within a few days and then I have to cancel my vacation to Italy for the second time. This really sucks.

What are vaccination rates in the Netherlands?

[Pim]

47 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

Not yet, but in prior cycles we would have seen the surge in hospitalizations and deaths happening by this point.

Not something I would have said pre-vaccine but... we're sort of reaching the point where COVID really is comparable to the flu in places where vaccines are widely available.  I think vaccine passports coupled with a differential restriction regime are a good idea (especially when/where there is a lot of community restriction), but the odds on this gamble are much more favorable than they were in the past.

What are vaccination rates in the Netherlands?

65 percent got their first shot. Almost 40% are fully vaccinated.

[kh1958]

Little Freddie King (81 year old New Orleans blues legend, who sounds nothing like Freddie King), gets vaccinated, a blow by blow illustrated account.

https://www.nola.com/entertainment_life/music/article_aaeb5b60-ea5d-11eb-ad84-775aba2e5214.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitternoladotcom&utm_campaign=snd

[Guy Berger]

I'm curious how folks are processing the delta wave that's surging through most of the places where we live.

The "good news" is that for vaccinated this is much less dangerous than previous waves.  (But more terrifying than before for those who are not.)

The bad news is that COVID risk *is* going up for everyone... it is probably safer to be an unvaccinated person in a very low case area than a vaccinated person in a very high case area.  (Of course, it's even worse to be an unvaccinated person in a very high case area... yikes.)

I'm also feeling the challenge of psychological adjustment from "this is an extremely serious illness and I have to take an immense amount of precautions" to "vaccination provides powerful protection against the worst risks so I can do more than before".  This was very easy when cases were super-low around here, but harder now.

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, Guy Berger said:

I'm curious how folks are processing the delta wave that's surging through most of the places where we live.

 

My personal feeling is the hope that enough die to substantially overcome vaccine hesitancy among those who do not get it but might somehow come to terms with the reality. But socially/politically, is this realistic?

Second point is that I don't feel like enforced masking is the right choice anymore.  If you want to, fine, have at it. But the aggravation (I wear glasses, its hard enough dealing with steamy Florida going in and out of A/C without masks) just to protect others, when those likely to have the worst outcomes are the ones refusing to vaccinate? 

There are preliminary indications the UK Delta-surge is abating which is an interesting indication of what their total protection - partial, full, "natural" - may be.

[jlhoots]

1 hour ago, Guy Berger said:

I'm curious how folks are processing the delta wave that's surging through most of the places where we live.

The "good news" is that for vaccinated this is much less dangerous than previous waves.  (But more terrifying than before for those who are not.)

The bad news is that COVID risk *is* going up for everyone... it is probably safer to be an unvaccinated person in a very low case area than a vaccinated person in a very high case area.  (Of course, it's even worse to be an unvaccinated person in a very high case area... yikes.)

I'm also feeling the challenge of psychological adjustment from "this is an extremely serious illness and I have to take an immense amount of precautions" to "vaccination provides powerful protection against the worst risks so I can do more than before".  This was very easy when cases were super-low around here, but harder now.

We're fully vaccinated - BUT we've gone back to masks indoors (we're old).

[mjazzg]

15 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

 

There are preliminary indications the UK Delta-surge is abating which is an interesting indication of what their total protection - partial, full, "natural" - may be.

Very early and in no way definitive. They certainly don't reflect our government's reckless 'freedoom day' rhetoric or reality. The effects of the opening up on community infection rates won't be measurable yet. Look again in a couple of weeks.

I want to be hopeful but I don't feel it. I know of enough double vaxed people who have caught it in this new wave. Thankfully so far without deaths but with some serious illness. The country's daily death rate is rising again and hospitals are beginning to feel the pinch once more.

15 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

 

Second point is that I don't feel like enforced masking is the right choice anymore.  If you want to, fine, have at it. But the aggravation (I wear glasses, its hard enough dealing with steamy Florida going in and out of A/C without masks) just to protect others, when those likely to have the worst outcomes are the ones refusing to vaccinate? 

 

I'm continuing to wear a mask and that's as a glasses wearer. The way I see it is that mask wearing only works as a mutual protection so the more people see others without them they won't bother. If everyone continues then a  protection level can be achieved as a critical mass wear masks. 

I'm on a train now doing a journey I have done regularly through the pandemic. Mask wearing, which is still required on public transport, is markedly down from about 90% to 65%. Not good as I see it

Edited July 24, 2021 by mjazzg

[BillF]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/ministers-letting-young-people-catch-covid-to-prepare-for-winter-sage-adviser-claims

This doesn't leave me feeling superconfident.

[sidewinder]

All seems fairly normal round here. People in shops respecting spacing and by and large, still wearing masks. I figure that as long as I avoid raves/discos etc. (not difficult) things will probably be quite manageable. More normality has definitely returned.

Can’t speak though for city dwellers..

[BillF]

Manchester now has the highest level of infections since the pandemic began and the lowest level of anti-infection regulations since last year.

[Guy Berger]

On 7/23/2021 at 3:11 PM, Dan Gould said:

My personal feeling is the hope that enough die to substantially overcome vaccine hesitancy among those who do not get it but might somehow come to terms with the reality. But socially/politically, is this realistic?

Second point is that I don't feel like enforced masking is the right choice anymore.  If you want to, fine, have at it. But the aggravation (I wear glasses, its hard enough dealing with steamy Florida going in and out of A/C without masks) just to protect others, when those likely to have the worst outcomes are the ones refusing to vaccinate? 

There are preliminary indications the UK Delta-surge is abating which is an interesting indication of what their total protection - partial, full, "natural" - may be.

IMHO enforced masking indoors makes sense temporarily in places where COVID risk is elevated.  Whether that's a realistic plan, I don't know - most of the hardest-hit areas are also those with a stronger aversion to masking.  Places where cases and hospitalization remain very low, especially in the presence of high vaccination rates, don't need mask mandates IMHO.

Re your second point, it's hard to tell - immunity (both via vaccination and infection) clearly plays a role, and maybe also voluntary risk minimization.  Each one of the prior waves burned out.  I wouldn't assume that this wave ending means there won't be future ones.  With luck they'll be much less harmful than their predecessors, as the British one has been.

[JSngry]

On 7/23/2021 at 5:11 PM, Dan Gould said:

My personal feeling is the hope that enough die to substantially overcome vaccine hesitancy among those who do not get it but might somehow come to terms with the reality. But socially/politically, is this realistic?

I am not opposed to thinning the herd by natural means, not at all.

However, businesses (my employer included) are so hellbent on getting fully vaccinated people back into their worker farms come hell or high water that...I want a 411 on booster shots ASAP, that's all. Because I know how people do, people lie and don't give a damn about doing so.