New Jazz Festival Balver Hohle 11-CD Set

[Face of the Bass]

I was wondering if anyone has heard this Bear Family box set of the Balver Hole New Jazz Festival from 1974-1975. Apologies if this has been discussed, but when I did a search nothing came up. Would like to know if this is worth tracking down. Thanks!

[mikeweil]

Haven't heard it, but there are two of these boxes:

https://www.bear-family.com/various-new-jazz-festival-balver-hoehle-1976-1977-8-cd-box.html

https://www.bear-family.com/various-new-jazz-festival-balver-hoehle-11-cd.html

The links display contents, but no samples, regrettably.

This is the Pork Pie performance from 1974:

 

More here:

 

A YouTube search will bring up more to get an impression.

[Д.Д.]

Yes, I just got it last week (together with the Born Free set https://www.discogs.com/Various-Born-Free-The-12th-German-Jazz-Festival/release/7946043 ). Not sure when I listen to it, but when I do I will remember to post my impressions here. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Д.Д.

[Face of the Bass]

5 hours ago, Д.Д. said:

Yes, I just got it last week (together with the Born Free set https://www.discogs.com/Various-Born-Free-The-12th-German-Jazz-Festival/release/7946043 ). Not sure when I listen to it, but when I do I will remember to post my impressions here. 

Thanks! I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned it here. People on this board, including myself, generally are obsessive when it comes to tracking down box sets!

[Д.Д.]

2 hours ago, Face of the Bass said:

Thanks! I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned it here. People on this board, including myself, generally are obsessive when it comes to tracking down box sets!

Well, if this was a box set of Blue Note outtakes of Art Blakey snorting cocaine in Rudy Van Gelder's studio bathroom - yes, there would be some lively discussion here. European free jazz - no Sir.   

[Hoppy T. Frog]

I got both of these, I was  pleasantly surprised by some of the Czech jazz on 74-75. 

[T.D.]

I'm thinking seriously about the Burg Altena International Jazz Meeting 1972-1973 and Born Free 12th German Jazz Festival releases. Super interesting but not cheap. Has anyone heard these? Thanks.

[clifford_thornton]

On 2/27/2021 at 2:05 PM, Face of the Bass said:

I was wondering if anyone has heard this Bear Family box set of the Balver Hole New Jazz Festival from 1974-1975. Apologies if this has been discussed, but when I did a search nothing came up. Would like to know if this is worth tracking down. Thanks!

It's cool and the sound is decent. I also have the 1970s LP version. 

Need to pick up the '76-'77 set. Is Bear Family shipping to the US reasonable?

[T.D.]

6 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

It's cool and the sound is decent. I also have the 1970s LP version. 

Need to pick up the '76-'77 set. Is Bear Family shipping to the US reasonable?

If Oldies.com happens to have it at a decent price, there'll be free shipping.

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, one copy left supposedly at oldies.

[romualdo]

On 27/02/2021 at 5:05 AM, Face of the Bass said:

I was wondering if anyone has heard this Bear Family box set of the Balver Hole New Jazz Festival from 1974-1975. Apologies if this has been discussed, but when I did a search nothing came up. Would like to know if this is worth tracking down. Thanks!

I was under the impression that these sets are not actually part of the Bear Family (releases) but they just distribute the label which has a variety of names but I think the parent company is Be! (includes Be! Jazz, Be! Sharp). These sets are under the B.free banner which is a subset of Be! Jazz. Basically it appears to be a bootleg/pirate label AFAIK.

https://www.bear-family.com/more-sections/distribution/be-records/

I've been interested in these since their release but I tend to reneg after reading the reviews of the label in discogs

https://www.discogs.com/label/695643-BE!-Jazz 

I actually have the Jutta Hipp set & it is an amazing release - was gifted to me by another Organissimo member (thanks Dan) almost a year and a half ago

The accompanying book is also superb

So, I'm torn between buying their material or avoiding it

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ZavezLoir

 November 17, 2018

 

I love this label very much. they have been released many rare reissues. It’s extremely hard to find those records’ original 1st pressing in mint condition. Artists should claim their right it is okay. But as a listener and consumer, I think the artists or their estate should re-release their old and ridiculously high priced albums before being ripped off.

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Adamsgade

 March 18, 2018

 

edited over 4 years ago

This label should be banned from discogs if you ask me. Bad quality and unlicensed bootlegs that should be avoided at all cost. Do NOT buy anything from these shameful pirate pressers.

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FrederiksbergRecords

 February 6, 2016

 

Please don't buy the BE Jazz bootleg of Carsten Meinert Kvartet "To You". We've made a remastered version from the original tapes and we've paid mechanicals as well as master rights. BE Jazz has done none of that and has no permission to release this title. Straight pirate bootleg! Shame on you Micha Gottschalk of BE Jazz.

Concerning the Barney Wilen "Zodiac" release by BE Jazz, Patrick Wilen - son of Barney, wrote on his Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/barneywilen/?fref=ts

"This bootleg of "Zodiac" came out under the label "BE! JAZZ". Don't buy it.
Thank you in advance for being loyal customers and respecting the rights of musicians and their heirs.
- Patrick Wilen"

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savagesaints

 December 22, 2015

 

I will never buy any BE! Jazz release. I've bought new Komeda "Ballet Etudes" LP (it's quite a lot of money) without any scratches but the sound is like from the sawmill. The publisher didn't say any word that the source is not from the master tapes but it's re-recorded from other LP in bad condition.

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[T.D.]

I believe you are correct, it's a confusing situation. I have a couple of Be! single CDs. Like you said, they appear to just be distributed by Bear Family. I also saw some material on discogs indicating it's a bootleg label. But I wasn't aware of all the negative reactions.

[Big Beat Steve]

The label IS a mixed bag. But you need to distinguish between what is in the Public Domain in the EU (recordings up to 1962) and therefore is perfectly legal for reissue and repackaging and what is not because it is not in the public domain so would need clearance of rights etc.
If he releases/reissues recordings that were made way later than 1962 then it does reek of bootlegging if he has not obtained the rights to the music. The suspicions certainly are there and I would not dispel them (not least of all because for reasons that are outside the concern of this forum I have no incentive to endorse his products unconditionally ). But do we know for sure in each case?
But older (pre-mid-1962) recordings? Those that I have seen and bought (not many but some - both from the Be!Jazz subsidiary and from the Be!Sharp rockabilly reissue label) have been very well done both in contents and presentation (annotations, etc.)  The first of his box sets I ever bought was the "The Texas Box - 1950s & 1960s Oddball Labels" rockabilly 10-CD box set right when it hit the market, and I'd easily believe the words of the seller who sold me the box set (that had everyone baffled who set eyes on it at the time): "When Bear Family saw that set they just cried!"  Easy to see from the accompanying 200-page LP-sized book alone ... And too much of a good thing, really (I refrained from ever looking closer at his subsequent box sets in that vein )

The MOD Records box set was a labor of love too (I understand the same goes for the Jutta Hipp set) - on a "cult" niche subject (to German jazz collectors) that no one seems to have tackled anywhere near as comprehensively through the decades. And it speaks in the favor of the producer that he did manage to obtain the support and endorsement of various key jazz archive persons relevant to this subject, including a German jazz expert who had reissued items from the MOD catalog (piecemeal and in a much sparser way) earlier on. And then the facsimile excerpts from the German "Jazz Podium" magazine that he used for the set and must have cleared in SOME way because the mag and publisher is still around ... All this does not sound like bootlegging to me. Same for some of the individual Be!Jazz CDs and LPs that feature previously unissued RADIO sessions. I think this is no stuff that you release underhandedly without some sort of okaying by the radio. Or else you'll have them breathe down your neck. Particularly in the current situation where other (e.g. German and Swiss) radio stations have started releasing some of their tapes from way back in a coordinated manner - with the attendant media exposure.
So in all fairness and beyond the doubtful practices with some of his releases (as some who seem to know said on Discogs) it must be handed to Micha Gottschalk that overall he goes where VERY few others dared to tread before, particularly in the area of European modern jazz. Even though many of these items have been in the P.D. before and these reissues remain one of the nichier of the niche markets in jazz. I can't and won't explain or condone his actions under the copyright angle (to the extent that they need to be explained or excused or condoned or damned or whatever ...) - but overall you just cannot generalize about whether everythign is a bootleg or not and it takes some hardcore fan dedication anyway to go way out THERE with that many extreme niche projects ...

P.S: Just for the record (literally ): The subject of THIS thread in the starting post should read "Balver Höhle".  It' is neither "Hohle" (oh those umlauts! ) and certainly not "Hole". "Höhle" means "cave" and refers to the setting where the festival took place.
https://www.festspiele-balver-hoehle.de/

Edited January 4, 2022 by Big Beat Steve

[romualdo]

15 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

The label IS a mixed bag. But you need to distinguish between what is in the Public Domain in the EU (recordings up to 1962) and therefore is perfectly legal for reissue and repackaging and what is not because it is not in the public domain so would need clearance of rights etc.
If he releases/reissues recordings that were made way later than 1962 then it does reek of bootlegging if he has not obtained the rights to the music. The suspicions certainly are there and I would not dispel them (not least of all because for reasons that are outside the concern of this forum I have no incentive to endorse his products unconditionally ). But do we know for sure in each case?

Thanks for the clarification & assurance - my Hipp box certainly appears to be a labour of love. The MOD box is another I have been very keen on but have been hesitant

[T.D.]

I have two single CDs on B.Free: Hans Koller Free Sound Nome (1974) and Marion Brown Quartet Five Improvisations (1977). Both seem to be either live performances or radio broadcasts, but are oddly vague about recording site/venue: the latter merely gives a date, the former a date and "Cologne, Germany" but adds "From the original tapes in pristine sound". So bootlegging / piracy is possible, but I can't say for sure. I did recently order a box set from the 1970s (can't tell yet whether the order will get filled)...now feel slightly bad about it.

Edited January 5, 2022 by T.D.