Joe Henderson Blue Note 1963-1966

[Niko]

10 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Now that's a great idea but I understand there are issues between the kids and who knows what could possibly be worked out. And who knows if there will be anything after that Dodo release.

 

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a lengthy list of half-finished projects which are way more interesting than Joe Henderson on BN...issues between the kids doesn't sound good - so maybe it would be easiest for all concerned if a third party was brought in... just imagine a "Sunenblick Mosaic" (like the Savory Mosaic) - hard to imagine a nicer memory for your father plus: I could imagine that these children have realistic expectations regarding the money that can be made with archival jazz records...

[Brad]

6 hours ago, Niko said:

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a lengthy list of half-finished projects which are way more interesting than Joe Henderson on BN...issues between the kids doesn't sound good - so maybe it would be easiest for all concerned if a third party was brought in... just imagine a "Sunenblick Mosaic" (like the Savory Mosaic) - hard to imagine a nicer memory for your father plus: I could imagine that these children have realistic expectations regarding the money that can be made with archival jazz records...

As Mosaic sets have fixed parameters around them such as 1935-1940 for Savory, I wonder what those would be for a Sunenblick Mosaic. Whatever it was, I’d purchase it in a second. 

[JSngry]

Wouldn't necessarily need the parameters going in, just to label coming out.

 

[Joe]

I guess we're never going to see that Don Joseph Uptown LP reissued / make it to digital formats.

[Dan Gould]

I will say I hadn't thought of Mosaic as an outlet for unfinished Sunnenblick projects. I figured maybe Zev and Cory get the chance to pick over the assets ... someday, or maybe Resonance. 

[Niko]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

I guess we're never going to see that Don Joseph Uptown LP reissued / make it to digital formats.

fwiw I was mainly thinking of the possible additional material for an expanded reissue of that album when I made my proposal.... (Larry Kart mentioned something along those lines iirc)... that said, I don't really see this Mosaic set happen either - even though it would be great, and I have a sealed spare copy of the Joseph LP...

[Joe]

On 1/25/2021 at 3:03 PM, Niko said:

fwiw I was mainly thinking of the possible additional material for an expanded reissue of that album when I made my proposal.... (Larry Kart mentioned something along those lines iirc)... that said, I don't really see this Mosaic set happen either - even though it would be great, and I have a sealed spare copy of the Joseph LP...

I'm all for an "all for nothing" approach to their vaults. Trying to remember now if the Joseph reissue was to have included extra material.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Joe

[clifford_thornton]

Can't see buying the Henderson; Morgan, maybe, just because I have a few holes in the LP collection and the alternates would be nice to have (ditto Shorter, but...). 

I'd much rather see them do Bill Barron, even though I have all that material already, just because. And various Uptown material too, whew. Of course I have dream sets that very few people would buy (mining the Bill Dixon Bennington tapes, for example). But Mosaic may no longer be the model/answer for what many of us are after, and with CDs not selling like they used to, it seems unsustainable. 

[JSngry]

Bill Barron's widow appears to have tapes...just sayin'...

[Dan Gould]

8 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

Can't see buying the Henderson; Morgan, maybe, just because I have a few holes in the LP collection and the alternates would be nice to have (ditto Shorter, but...). 

I'd much rather see them do Bill Barron, even though I have all that material already, just because. And various Uptown material too, whew. Of course I have dream sets that very few people would buy (mining the Bill Dixon Bennington tapes, for example). But Mosaic may no longer be the model/answer for what many of us are after, and with CDs not selling like they used to, it seems unsustainable. 

We need to expand on the "join in to buy the Blue Note Box Set so we can hear Hank Mobley speak" model and make a huge group purchase of mega millions or Powerball. Once we win, we put the bucks into Mosaic to sponsor the box sets we want. $100,000 or whatever cash on the barrelhead, Michael is gonna say "hell yeah" to whatever we ask for.

YOU get a Bill Barron set!

YOU get a Sunnenblick set!

YOU get an Unissued Three Sounds set!

(I also get a Percy France set)

 

 

 

 

[David Ayers]

46 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Bill Barron's widow appears to have tapes...just sayin'...

Maybe one for nobusiness?

[JSngry]

So far, that's right.

[jazzbo]

My principal interest in a Blue Note Henderson set is sonic. I'm retired, I've invested in a very good system, and the Mobley set was a delight in that each session was presented in homogenous mastering, and each session sounded better than it has on cd for me before. I was even able to finance the set entirely by selling Japanese discs that I had of the material. A similar set of Henderson material would be a welcome additon.

Edited January 26, 2021 by jazzbo

[dougcrates]

According to an Instagram post by Mosaic Images the set is due in March.  I wonder if it might include Basra?

[Joe]

14 minutes ago, dougcrates said:

According to an Instagram post by Mosaic Images the set is due in March.  I wonder if it might include Basra?

It should! I wonder if Pete LaRoca has changed his mind, though.

[Daniel A]

20 minutes ago, Joe said:

It should! I wonder if Pete LaRoca has changed his mind, though.

Before his passing, you mean? 

[Ken Dryden]

Considering that Pete Sims sued when Turkish Women at the Bath was reissued under Chick Corea’s name, it seems unlikely that he would have approved if he were still alive. 

[Joe]

3 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Before his passing, you mean? 

Yes, sorry, I'd forgotten he passed. 

I guess copies of the BASRA RVG made their way to markets overseas (EU), but never stateside. 

Previous board discussion (2004)

It's an excellent recording, with some of Henderson's fieriest BN work. It definitely merits inclusion.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

On 1/24/2021 at 8:06 AM, Joe said:

I doubt it, but maybe this set will also include some of the rejected Horace Silver Quintet performances from Pep's? Or an officially official release of the Cork & Bib performances?

https://www.jazzdisco.org/horace-silver/discography/#640815

Unless his son found the Pep's tapes in his late father's things, we'll likely never hear them. They were supposedly destroyed by Horace after Cuscuna gave them to him.

[Joe]

39 minutes ago, bresna said:

Unless his son found the Pep's tapes in his late father's things, we'll likely never hear them. They were supposedly destroyed by Horace after Cuscuna gave them to him.

Wow, was not aware of this. Thanks!

[Brad]

1 hour ago, bresna said:

Unless his son found the Pep's tapes in his late father's things, we'll likely never hear them. They were supposedly destroyed by Horace after Cuscuna gave them to him.

Do you know why?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

43 minutes ago, Brad said:

Do you know why?

I think Cuscuna said something about Horace saying that the band had a bad night and no one should ever hear them like that. Lon mentions that he talked to Cuscuna about it here:

Edited to add from here: https://digscholarship.unco.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1380&context=dissertations

" Carmell [Jones] was from L.A., and everybody’s nice in L.A., and friendly and sunny and everybody owns cars and has a parking space and all that stuff. He just wasn’t used to the East Coast. That week we’re at Pep’s. It was a Sunday afternoon, [and] we were going to do a matinee. Rudy Van Gelder was setting up, and Carmell was on the bandstand, which is in front of the bar. You know the way guys in Philly are. So these two guys . . . say “You’re the new guy, you’re the guy from sunny California. You better be able to play, man, after what Blue Mitchell played.” And they’re just ragging on him.

Any New Yorker, Philly or D.C. guy would just take that in stride and maybe come back at them. It crushed Carmell so badly that he just imploded for that whole day of recording. That’s what took the whole band down. He was just so sensitive and not used to the whole East Coast aggressive style . . . . It’s an aggressive style, but it’s mostly just people kidding each other. He crashed and burned and that took the whole thing down with him."

And further:

" Years later, Silver and Cuscuna spent an afternoon in a recording studio listening back to the recording. It was, in fact, so unissuable that Cuscuna relinquished the master tapes to Silver, who destroyed them."

Edited February 17, 2021 by bresna

[ghost of miles]

On 1/27/2021 at 11:50 AM, dougcrates said:

According to an Instagram post by Mosaic Images the set is due in March.  I wonder if it might include Basra?

Good catch—if it’s that close, surely they’ll be posting a summary and track listing on the website soon? I don’t have the sense that the set goes beyond Henderson’s leader dates and the two Dorham albums that could count as co-leader dates... but I don’t have any direct info to cite. I have the ancient-by-this-point Connoisseur edition of Basra... was there some kind of controversy with the U.S. RVG reissue? 

[Niko]

There is no US RVG of Basra, a product with that name was apparently not considered viable in the US at the time... Unfortunately, this was also the time when European RVGs had that copy protection thing...

[Rooster_Ties]

46 minutes ago, Niko said:

There is no US RVG of Basra, a product with that name was apparently not considered viable in the US at the time...

I’m pretty sure I read/heard that Pete La Roca personally put the kibosh on US the reissue at the time because the (then) ongoing Iraq war (given the title “Basra”) — but for whatever reason, the European version (with the dreaded copyright control) went forward — possibly it pre-dated the planned (but kiboshed) US version slightly?

Surely someone here remembers and can confirm.