Joe Henderson Blue Note 1963-1966

[jazzbo]

That's one of the stale excuses.

 

[Dub Modal]

56 minutes ago, felser said:

Easily rectified for under $10

https://www.ebay.com/sch/176984/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=joe+henderson+page+one&_sop=15

Oh, for sure. It's easy to come by for pretty cheap. My reasoning for possibly getting the Mosaic set was because they improved the sound so much on those Mobley albums that if the same was done for JH then these would become my go-to's for them.

A difference here too is that at least some of those Mobley CDs weren't so easy to come by (Hi Voltage, Thinking of Home...). The Henderson BNs aren't so hard to find. I think it was Universal that put that Henderson 5 Original Albums set out which included Our Thing, Inner Urge & In N' Out (along with the 2 VV trio sets). Great music but with BN pushing out their own specialty vinyl now at AAA, these may be a harder sell than the Hank set for newbies. (also likely a reason these will be CDs instead of LPs - can't help but think it would not be licensed for vinyl with Tone Poets & BN 80s/Classics being produced in house)

It would be awesome if they could reissue the Hank 50s set. I missed that one. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Dub Modal

[JSngry]

4 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

That's one of the stale excuses.

 

Stale does not become invalid, it just becomes stale. You want to remove staleness remove invalidity.

In the meantime, got any Black & White 78s? I hear that a legendary jazz reissue company has run out of flea markets, or wherever else they've gotten things over the years. Apparently that's how they do things.

[jazzbo]

Open the window and let that bad air out.

[JSngry]

That works for stink, not stale.

And speaking of stale, a Joe Henderson Mosiac set seem like and incredibly stale idea.

[ejp626]

Mosaic has basically been identified with the connoisseur market from the beginning.  Want LP cover images, tough.  You'll get everything in a black box and like it.

But due to marketing pressures and probably licensing issues, close to half their current releases are morphing into something remarkably close to the "5 Original Albums" sets.  Maybe with marginally better sound but still without album covers.  

So I don't think it is unreasonable for collectors, i.e. picky people, to wonder what gives and is this really something that is worth investigating and supporting.  I don't feel morally obligated to support a company that is moving in a direction that isn't of interest to me. 

[JSngry]

I mean, I get it - Mosaic no longer wants or needs my business, and that's their prerogative. I guess they've identified a fresh new exciting market for readily available CDs repackaged into a fresh new exciting black box.

Good for them, thanks for their service, and here's wishing them the best in their exciting fresh new Golden Age.

[Dub Modal]

Well, the Mobley set got them some cash flow and maybe they think the JH set will do the same. I'm thinking a Lee Morgan set would do better in that regard - more like Mobley in that some of those albums aren't easy to find on CD and SQ improvements (more than marginal IMO) would help move product. 

Then use that cash flow for other connoisseur sets. 

[JSngry]

3 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

Then use that cash flow for other connoisseur sets. 

Unfortunately, when a business gets to this point, the only use for cash flow is to get money for depleted cash flow...I believe the formal financial term is "gasping for air"?

And then, you sell the brand name. A few decades later "Mosaic", like,"Bell & Howell", becomes you go-to source for affordable As Seen On TV products for every taste and any budget.

[Pim]

Well of course a nice idea. Joe is one my favorite tenors but I have to admit that I hate the fact that Mosaics new sets contain mostly music that is widely avaible. For the Henderson set. I already own all of that music in pretty great vinyl or cd versions. What’s the point of buying the same music again  in that black box for let’s say 120 euros? I think the ideas we’ve presented in that one topic here for new mosaics were much more interesting....

[dougcrates]

I have all of this material but I would probably buy it.  I think if they do go forward they should release something more obscure simultaneously.  "We're proud to release 2 box sets by saxophone giants Joe Henderson and Bill Barron".  Or whomever.  Tie Joe's name recognition to someone more obscure and people might pay more attention than otherwise. 

And maybe Mosaic should create an Instagram account or some TikTok videos or whatever the hell the latest thing is to try and reach a new audience.  Make people understand that jazz isn't stuffy.   I'm 43 and got into jazz 30 years ago by listening to A Tribe Called Quest.  There has to be a way to market great music to the unitiated.  

[David Ayers]

I guess the reason to go for Blue Note reissues is to make use of the digital transfers that Don Was commissioned. What was the Mobley set based on? And aren’t these digital versions used now even in mastering BN LPs? I find I don’t know so these are actual questions. 

[Dub Modal]

1 hour ago, David Ayers said:

I guess the reason to go for Blue Note reissues is to make use of the digital transfers that Don Was commissioned. What was the Mobley set based on? And aren’t these digital versions used now even in mastering BN LPs? I find I don’t know so these are actual questions. 

I think all the vinyl they're producing is AAA with Kevin Gray mastering. The Mobley CDs were done by Malcom Addey, so I don't think they're the same. 

[jazzbo]

57 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

I think all the vinyl they're producing is AAA with Kevin Gray mastering. The Mobley CDs were done by Malcom Addey, so I don't think they're the same. 

But the Mobley Mosaic cds don't indicate that Addey did the transfers.

[romualdo]

On 16/01/2021 at 0:06 PM, J.A.W. said:

Ha, good to hear. I suggested a Henderson/BN set to him a while ago, along with a few other "BN in the 1960s" sets: Lee Morgan (I hope this one will materialize), Wayne Shorter, Bobby Hutcherson including Dolphy's Out to Lunch, Freddie Hubbard, Herbie Hancock (the BN set has been OOP for a long time), Dexter Gordon (same), and maybe 1960-1963 Jackie McLean.

I too suggested a Hutcherson set back in the 90s & Michael's reply was it would be difficult to choose an appropriate range (starting & end points) BUT he was definitely keen

10 hours ago, Brad said:

On your second point, based on what I see at Hoffman there seem to be more people interested in jazz. Perhaps people like this would be more interested in this box. A lot of the Hoffman people are vinyl buyers so it remains to be seen whether a cd box set would appeal to them. 

My impression from reading the Hoffman board is that the majority are hanging out for vinyl only releases/versions

9 hours ago, ejp626 said:

Mosaic has basically been identified with the connoisseur market from the beginning.  Want LP cover images, tough. 

Again, back in the 90s I suggested to Michael that full page images of the respective LPs be included in the booklets - he thought it was a good idea but it appears nothing eventuated (or was it copyright issues?)

9 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

 I'm thinking a Lee Morgan set would do better in that regard

BTW, Lee is ultra hip amongst my children's (mid-late 20s) generation but I'm not sure if they would go for CDs (basically fossils to them now) - it's all vinyl & Spotify/streaming

[felser]

39 minutes ago, romualdo said:

I too suggested a Hutcherson set back in the 90s & Michael's reply was it would be difficult to choose an appropriate range (starting & end points) BUT he was definitely keen

 

Hutcherson/Land, including the Land albums on Cadet and Mainstream.  I had suggested that to them 10 years ago.

[Rooster_Ties]

1 minute ago, felser said:

Hutcherson/Land, including the Land albums on Cadet and Mainstream.  I had suggested that to them 10 years ago.

I’d jump all over that; primarily because of the non-BN dates — an easy purchase decision.

[Dan Gould]

9 hours ago, romualdo said:

 

BTW, Lee is ultra hip amongst my children's (mid-late 20s) generation but I'm not sure if they would go for CDs (basically fossils to them now) - it's all vinyl & Spotify/streaming

How exactly is Lee Morgan "ultra hip" among this mid-late 20s generation? Why/how do they even know him?  Was Sidewinder used on a commercial down under that I never heard about?  Did I called him Morgan play to sell out crowds on college campuses? My nephews/niece aren't quite to that age but they sure as hell have no idea who Lee Morgan would be, so I am very curious how Lee achieved this stature.

[Mark13]

Mosaic is a business and this probably makes business-sense. We're talking classic Blue Note material here and The market for completists of that material remains healthy - even on cd. My guess is that the orders from Japan for this Henderson-set will be pouring in.

And that's just fine. If recycling the entire Blue Note catalogue helps Mosaic to stay afloat and adopt a strategy where they can alternate a Lucky Thompson- or Barron-set that stays in print forever with a safe quick-seller by Lee Morgan or Joe Henderson there really is no reason for any of us to complain. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Mark13

[romualdo]

47 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

How exactly is Lee Morgan "ultra hip" among this mid-late 20s generation? Why/how do they even know him?  Was Sidewinder used on a commercial down under that I never heard about?  Did I called him Morgan play to sell out crowds on college campuses? My nephews/niece aren't quite to that age but they sure as hell have no idea who Lee Morgan would be, so I am very curious how Lee achieved this stature.

My two sons are heavily involved in the music scene (all styles including jazz) here in Brisbane & Australia and many of their friends are into the Blue Note label & especially Lee Morgan. I'd say mainstream young Australia have likely never heard of him but people here in the know are really hip to him through word of mouth - nothing to do with any advertising especially utilising the Sidewinder as their soundtrack. Some of them have even seen the doco "I called him Morgan" - we have it on Netflix here

[Dan Gould]

2 minutes ago, romualdo said:

My two sons are heavily involved in the music scene (all styles including jazz) here in Brisbane & Australia and many of their friends are into the Blue Note label & especially Lee Morgan. I'd say mainstream young Australia have likely never heard of him but people here in the know are really hip to him through word of mouth - nothing to do with any advertising especially utilising the Sidewinder as their soundtrack. Some of them have even seen the doco "I called him Morgan" - we have it on Netflix here

Ah, I see. Might have been more appropriate to have narrowed it from "my children's generation" to "my children's friends" - then I wouldn't have sought clarification of what seemed like a sweeping statement about a not-inconsequential chunk of the population.

 

[mjazzg]

6 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Ah, I see. Might have been more appropriate to have narrowed it from "my children's generation" to "my children's friends" - then I wouldn't have sought clarification of what seemed like a sweeping statement about a not-inconsequential chunk of the population.

 

I think it was pretty obvious romauldo wasn't claiming every Australian of that generation were strolling along whistling 'The Sidewinder' but it's always good to check just in case a bad case of BN-itis has swept an entire nation .  After all, there isn't a vaccine for that yet to my knowledge.

I'm pretty that there's a good number of late-20/30 somethings in London and wider UK that now know of Lee Morgan.  The recent upsurge in that generation's interest in Jazz is palpable and evident.  Many of the achingly hip shops now list classic BNs next to the bands of the younger generation that are the usual draw.  It's great that there's this entry point.

[Brad]

I’m not going to say there’s a jazz resurgence but I was in a record store yesterday and there were quite a few people in their 20s or 30s in the jazz section and one person in particular was telling his friend that he was looking for some Monk.  Yes, it was vinyl, and not cd. In addition, from what I have read Blue Note is pretty happy with Tone Poet sales. Maybe it’s the hip thing to buy BN vinyl these days. 

[Dub Modal]

12 hours ago, romualdo said:

BTW, Lee is ultra hip amongst my children's (mid-late 20s) generation but I'm not sure if they would go for CDs (basically fossils to them now) - it's all vinyl & Spotify/streaming

Very cool to hear this. I'm currently in grad school, but am about 20 years or so most of my classmates' ages. None of them have any CDs. There may be a small number of them with records but music is almost exclusively accessed via streaming. Albums have a kitsch factor that CDs do not, and I don't ever see these kids adopting a preference for CDs. 

As stated above, if Mosaic's CD sets are probably aimed at Gen X or older domestically, and the international segment abroad that still buys them. 

18 hours ago, jazzbo said:

But the Mobley Mosaic cds don't indicate that Addey did the transfers.

Ah, my apologies @David Ayers I mistakenly missed your wording regarding transfers. 

[Brad]

@dougcrates posted that Mosaic doesn’t have an Instagram account and it’s true they don’t. Even though they might not have a lot of product for sale, having an Instagram account would help get their name out there.  Oddly enough Mosaic Images does but not Mosaic Records.