Joe Henderson Blue Note 1963-1966

[mikeweil]

These tracks from sideman dates that Henderson composed to me look like a filler. (A very good filler, of course.) Without them, At least half of a CDs's playing time would have been wasted. The concept looks like that of the MJQ box, where all the alternates where added to one disc that was only partly filled.

AFA Basra is concerned, maybe the problems that arose when the Connoisseur CD was planned are still reason enough to keep their hands off this one. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by mikeweil

[tranemonk]

I'm confused. I just looked at the discography and looked at my own library. Mosaic's website has the following as having been released on CD previously..

CD:

Kenny Dorham-Una Mas                                  Blue Note 7-46515-2 (rel. 1987)

Joe Henderson-Mode For Joe                           Blue Note 7-84227-2 (rel. 1988)

Joe Henderson-Our Thing                                  Blue Note 7-84152-2 (rel. 1989)

Joe Henderson-In ‘N Out                                   Blue Note 8-29156-2 (rel. 1994)

Bobby Hutcherson-The Kicker                         Blue Note 5-21437-2 (rel. 1999)

Joe Henderson-Mode For Joe                           Blue Note (Japan) UCCQ-5120 (rel. 2015)

 

But.... I have Trompeta Toccato and Little Johnny C on CD... it was like a Van Gelder special release or something like that. Was this just an oversight? 

I'm trying to figure out how much of this I already have... Looks like about half......

 

Not sure what to do.... 

4 hours ago, bresna said:

That's another "forth" in that back & forth thing. Add in older failing ears.

FWIW, I have liked the sound of those Analogue Productions SACDs, so it might be tough for this box to unseat the SACD of "Page One".

Count me in that category both the waffling and the ears....

18 hours ago, felser said:

I've never heard them say "we remastered the material, but it doesn't really sound particularly different/better than what's been out before", even though I would argue that's the case often enough.  This is an easy pass for me, as were the Mobley and Morgan.  $ and shelf space are not limitless, and I have everything except the three new alternates on CD already (also have all the Mobley and Morgan material on CD), and they have the (subjective, for me) magic of the Blue Note artwork, which the Mosaics never do.

Which Morgan are you talking about??? If it's the complete Live at the Lighthouse - I thought that wasn't out until June?

[jazzbo]

I'm sure those are an oversight. . . those two have been on cd indeed. At least once. 

There was talk of a Lee Morgan set similar to the Mobley and now Henderson. Talk that has not yet materialized as an officially announced project at least as far as I know.

[Brad]

I’d be surprised if we don’t see a Morgan 60s set in the next year or so. 

[JSngry]

In Hologrammic Total Immersion Surround Visiosound, I hope.

Just not at Slugs, please.

[tranemonk]

3 minutes ago, Brad said:

I’d be surprised if we don’t see a Morgan 60s set in the next year or so. 

What the heck would be in it? I think I have all that stuff on CD already. You mean like all the BN sessions from that decade? I can't see buying that (as much as LOVE Morgan) unless there's a lot of previously unreleased stuff (and I don't mean alternates or incomplete takes). 

[Dub Modal]

4 hours ago, jcam_44 said:

Not really sure I consider telling people what they could have had but can no longer have as caring about the store front. It not really useful business information to tell someone they can't have something.   

I think by and large they've neglected their website which is the main storefront, and while that's a minor aspect it's something that either needs attention or be deleted.

Re: website neglect, they really should not allow those reviews to be posted without admin approval at this point; probably another thing there that should be deleted all together. I'm coming from a place where I want them to succeed and these days web presence is almost everything. Glad to hear they're planning an upgrade and I hope it helps them get more visibility leading to more sales. 

[JSngry]

They need a hit.

Seriously.

 

[Brad]

45 minutes ago, tranemonk said:

What the heck would be in it? I think I have all that stuff on CD already. You mean like all the BN sessions from that decade? I can't see buying that (as much as LOVE Morgan) unless there's a lot of previously unreleased stuff (and I don't mean alternates or incomplete takes). 

Yes, the BN leader sessions from the 60s and there’s a lot of them. Maybe the problem for Mosaic is that it would be a big box and they’re worried whether it would be too expensive. Conceptually, it’s not much different than the Henderson box, just more of it. 

37 minutes ago, JSngry said:

They need a hit.

Seriously.

 

What about a Blakey box from the 50s. Wouldn’t that be popular?

Edited April 19, 2021 by Brad

[Rooster_Ties]

1 hour ago, mikeweil said:

AFA Basra is concerned, maybe the problems that arose when the Connoisseur CD was planned are still reason enough to keep their hands off this one. 

FWIW, none of the tracks from Basra were penned by Joe — in terms of why nothing from that date was included in the “sideman” tracks ‘extras’ at the end of disc #4. (Everything there is a Henderson tune.)

[Mark Stryker]

40 minutes ago, Brad said:

Yes, the BN leader sessions from the 60s and there’s a lot of them. Maybe the problem for Mosaic is that it would be a big box and they’re worried whether it would be too expensive. Conceptually, it’s not much different than the Henderson box, just more of it. 

These are the 17 released LPs recorded in the '60s. With the other sundry Morgan sessions, plus alternates, that would a HUGE set -- at least 11 CDs I think, maybe as many as 13 or 14? Hard to imagine the company taking that kind of risk, though if you could sell a 9-CD Mobley box, I would think you could sell the Morgan. 

Lee-way
The Sidewinder
Search for the New Land
Tom Cat
The Rumproller
The Gigolo
Cornbread
Infinity
DelightfuLee
Charisma
The Rajah
Standards
Sonic Boom
The Procrastinator
The Sixth Sense
Taru
Caramba
 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Mark Stryker

[tranemonk]

1 minute ago, Mark Stryker said:

These are the released LPs, not including other sundry spare Morgan sessions and alternates.

Lee-way
The Sidewinder
Search for the New Land
Tom Cat
The Rumproller
The Gigolo
Cornbread
Infinity
DelightfuLee
Charisma
The Rajah
Standards
Sonic Boom
The Procrastinator
The Sixth Sense
Taru
Caramba
 

 

Have and love all of those sessions....  I can't imagine that being re-released... All of those have been CD (17)... Adding in whatever else exists Mosaic would be looking at like at least an 8CD set... Can't see it. 

[JSngry]

12 minutes ago, Brad said:

What about a Blakey box from the 50s. Wouldn’t that be popular?

Comprehensive?

That's a lot of labels to cover (although I guess there's only, what, 3 left these days?) and a lot of not-so-popular records.

I'm still not totally convinced that a post-Roulette Basie set wouldn't be a "winner" of sorts, although how far past Verve (or even if you would go past Verve) could be problematic from a "taste" standpoint, although a more mature listening has gotten me to appreciate how good an arranger that Chico O'Farrill was at taking just any damn tune and making it sounds like a classic Count Basie tune. But how much of an audience does Basie have these days? Or anybody, really?

Truthfully, though, I don't know how much their heart is in this any more. If not their heart, their wallet, hell I know what's in my wallet, and it ain't all that much, so them, probably even less at this point. They're probably living paycheck to paycheck just like the rest of us.

 

[tranemonk]

Returning back to this Henderson set... I'm leaning toward passing on it as I've got about half of it and there doesn't seem to be much new material. 

[Brad]

23 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:

These are the 17 released LPs recorded in the '60s. With the other sundry Morgan sessions, plus alternates, that would a HUGE set -- at least 10 CDs, maybe as many as 12 or 13? ? Hard to imagine the company taking that kind of risk, though if you could sell a 9-CD Mobley box, I would think you could sell the Morgan. 

Lee-way
The Sidewinder
Search for the New Land
Tom Cat
The Rumproller
The Gigolo
Cornbread
Infinity
DelightfuLee
Charisma
The Rajah
Standards
Sonic Boom
The Procrastinator
The Sixth Sense
Taru
Caramba
 

 

The size is the problem unless they can think of a way to chop it down. 

[Rooster_Ties]

Although I’m not super torn about it, I’m afraid I’m probably going to pass on this one.

I already have everything except the three (3) truly “previously unreleased” alternates (and I do already have that Japanese SHM-CD of Mode For Joe, including the alternate take of “Mode For Joe” that was previously unreleased prior to 2015 — which is marvelous!!).

Much as I’d like to have the booklet, it’s just too hard to justify the cash outlay for just 3 alternates.

Not every release I have of all this stuff (all on CD) is probably optimal in terms of sound quality, but neither is my sound system anywhere close to nice enough for it to matter.

If there was a fair bit more unreleased material, I could justify it (like *IF* I didn’t already have those precious Unity alternates, and *IF* they were included here — something that important, I’d have no self control at all). But those three (3) particular alternates aren’t gonna change my world or anything.

I didn’t bite on the 60’s Mobley set either, and I suspect there won’t be enough new stuff with any sort of Lee 60’s set either.

But I’d pre-order a Bill Barron set!!

Edited April 20, 2021 by Rooster_Ties

[mjzee]

I was never a big fan of Mr. Henderson's music, so I will also pass.  I acquired 4 of these albums (Page One, Our Thing, In N Out, and Mode For Joe) on a cheapo EMI set (the precursor to the currently available "5 Original Albums"); I also own the Dorham discs.  So the only album I'm currently lacking is Inner Urge, which I'm sure I'll acquire at some point (although McCoy is not my favorite backup pianist).

[gmonahan]

It's Mosaic. I've ordered it. I'll be interested to see if they do that 60s Lee Morgan set. I still think a Lionel Hampton 40s big band set would sell.

 

 

 

gregmo

[JSngry]

7 minutes ago, gmonahan said:

I still think a Lionel Hampton 40s big band set would sell.

It would to me!

[Joe]

The absence of BASRA is a major bummer, but I get the reasoning. INNER URGE could definitely use a sonic upgrade. Then again, so could those STATE OF THE TENOR sessions... but, again, I get the reasoning. And the marketing.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

16 minutes ago, Joe said:

The absence of BASRA is a major bummer, but I get the reasoning. INNER URGE could definitely use a sonic upgrade. Then again, so could those STATE OF THE TENOR sessions... but, again, I get the reasoning. And the marketing.

I think that double CD set of "State of the Tenor" sounds very good. In fact, Blue Noie reissued them in the Tone Poet vinyl reissue series and although everyone on the Hoffman forum raves about the sound, I think those CDs sound very similar. I regret spending the money on those expensive LPs.

[jazzbo]

They were also reissued in Japan on SHM-CD and they are less compressed than the US cds, sound very good to me.

[jcam_44]

2 hours ago, bresna said:

I think that double CD set of "State of the Tenor" sounds very good. In fact, Blue Noie reissued them in the Tone Poet vinyl reissue series and although everyone on the Hoffman forum raves about the sound, I think those CDs sound very similar. I regret spending the money on those expensive LPs.

I hated the sound of the CD set. I find it hard to listen to, or did, may be time to pull it out and listen to it on my new CD player. 

[romualdo]

1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

They were also reissued in Japan on SHM-CD and they are less compressed than the US cds, sound very good to me.

I have both versions (twofer & SHMs) of the State...... & agree that the SHMs are superb

[felser]

8 hours ago, Brad said:

The size is the problem unless they can think of a way to chop it down. 

You could cut out "Leeway", which is from four years and a few label changes (Vee Jay, Jazzland, back to Blue Note) prior to anything else on the set.  But you still have 16 albums then.