Eric Dolphy on Blue Note?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

6 hours ago, Daniel A said:

According to Herbie, he got the car at age 22 after receiving his first royalty check, and Santamaria's version was released at some point during 1963, probably after he got the car. But no doubt he made more money on the tune.

That article I referenced says he bought it in 1963 when he was 23. I imagine he made quite a bit off of Mongo's top 10 version. Maybe the royalty check he's referring to is from Santamaria's performance? It charted in late April of 1963.

[JSngry]

This is interesting... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_Man_(composition)

Hancock's first version was released as a grooving hard bop record, and featured improvisations by Freddie Hubbard and Dexter Gordon.^[1] A single reached the Top 100 of the pop chart.

So it looks like the song/record was already making waves, and Mongo's version is what got them to crash onto the shore.

It is a catchy tune!

[mikeweil]

On 16.4.2021 at 4:43 PM, JSngry said:

God, does nobody remember Cool Struttin'?

Sorry ...... I looked it up: there were seven or eight Blue Note albums with Art Farmer.

[JSngry]

Still, not all that many, relatively speaking. But Farmer might not have been one to naturally allign with the "repertory company" approach once getting away from it at Prestige?

Farmer certainly kept busy, just not with a lot of those type records.

[Daniel A]

On 2021-04-17 at 2:06 AM, bresna said:

That article I referenced says he bought it in 1963 when he was 23. I imagine he made quite a bit off of Mongo's top 10 version. Maybe the royalty check he's referring to is from Santamaria's performance? It charted in late April of 1963.

It turns out you were right. I checked Hancock's autobiography (which I should have done in the first place) and he says the Santamaria single came out "early 1963". He doesn't specifically mention if it was the first check (though I have read that somewhere before) but it seemed to be an "advance payment" based on the sales of Santamaria's version. And he claims it was Donald Byrd's idea to show the tune for Santamaria in the first place. 

He also tells that Lion and Wolff tried to make him believe that he would not get to do the album if he didn't turn over the publishing rights to them, but when he refused and headed for the door they backed out and let him have it his way. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Daniel A

[mjzee]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

He also tells that Lion and Wolff tried to make him believe that he would not get to do the album if he didn't turn over the publishing rights to them, but when he refused and headed for the door they backed out and let him have it his way. 

Perhaps Lion & Wolff's perspective was: Most BN albums lost money (only a small percentage were hits), they needed the publishing revenue to make a profit, and Herbie Hancock was a literal nobody at that time.  While "Watermelon Man" sounded like it could be a hit, nobody could really know in advance.  So in the negotiations with Hancock, Lion & Wolff saw their potential to make money decrease with Hancock's insistence on retaining publishing, and L & W would still bear the entire loss if the record flopped.  In the end, they decided to give the cocky new kid a chance, and it turned out well for everyone.  Herbie stayed with BN through 1969, so I don't think he bore any grudges.

[JSngry]

Herbie knew he had value and believed that he would have worth. Donald Byrd helped him break the spell that had too many people for too long believing otherwise.

Thank you, Donald Byrd.

[danasgoodstuff]

What if BN & HH had compromised and split the publishing?  Everyone makes $, BN doesn't need to sell to Liberty, and the world is a better place?

[JSngry]

How about McCarthy beats Humphrey and then Nixon in 68? Then the world's a better place?

Only it's not. The world is never a better place uless/until its inhabitants are and forcibly call the bluffs of those who aren't. I don't know that Blue Note not being sold to Liberty gets us there?

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Oh, I know... for one thing, without Liberty's $ no one comes back to BN in the later '60s - not Lou D, not Grant G, not the 3 Sounds.  At least 2 of those would be a loss.  They might not have signed McCoy or Elvin either.

Also BN's thinking on publishing may well have been that if they didn't get it then some slimeball like Morris Levy would and then they'd have to deal with that.

[Dan Gould]

20 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Oh, I know... for one thing, without Liberty's $ no one comes back to BN in the later '60s - not Lou D, not Grant G, not the 3 Sounds.  At least 2 of those would be a loss. 

I believe that Alfred was still in charge when the Sounds came back and he produced Good Vibrations? (I also don't appreciate the implication of your second sentence, but I'll let it slide.   )

 

[JSngry]

And Herbie doesn't have the bank to sustain Mwandishi for as long as he did, because also "Maiden Voyage" was a bit of hit also, got used in a Yardley commercial or some such.

Twice the money is not something to surrender if you don't have to.

[danasgoodstuff]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

I believe that Alfred was still in charge when the Sounds came back and he produced Good Vibrations? (I also don't appreciate the implication of your second sentence, but I'll let it slide.   )

 

I think we're more on the same page here than not, selling the label and having more $ to play with led in the short term to a sort of Indian Summer - although we will probably never know exactly who was calling what what shots and when.  And I own and enjoy Vibrations, and love Live at the Lighthouse - if they were to issue the as yet unissued tunes from that date I'd buy it in a heartbeat.  I also love most Leo/Idris' work for the label '67-70.  He owned that groove even more than Higgins owned Son of Sidewinder.  And, unlike Cuscuna, I think groove tunes of various sorts are at the heart of what the label was about.  And I wish they would just go ahead and issue everything done at/for BN until Francis left (1971?).  Things like the Sounds Soul Symphony or Blue Mitchell's Collision in Black, i don't love but the're still part of the story.

[felser]

49 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said:

I think we're more on the same page here than not, selling the label and having more $ to play with led in the short term to a sort of Indian Summer - although we will probably never know exactly who was calling what what shots and when.  And I own and enjoy Vibrations, and love Live at the Lighthouse - if they were to issue the as yet unissued tunes from that date I'd buy it in a heartbeat.  I also love most Leo/Idris' work for the label '67-70.  He owned that groove even more than Higgins owned Son of Sidewinder.  And, unlike Cuscuna, I think groove tunes of various sorts are at the heart of what the label was about.  And I wish they would just go ahead and issue everything done at/for BN until Francis left (1971?).  Things like the Sounds Soul Symphony or Blue Mitchell's Collision in Black, i don't love but the're still part of the story.

"Soul Symphony" came out on CD in 2008.  I got it cheap, didn't  keep it, but wish now I had.

[Dan Gould]

6 minutes ago, felser said:

"Soul Symphony" came out on CD in 2008.  I got it cheap, didn't  keep it, but wish now I had.

I didn't think I'd like Soul Symphony but I really, really do. Its just loaded with Gene's piano and the strings don't detract. I took a while to pull the trigger on a vinyl copy before the CD came out. I think I came to the conclusion that Gene was dead and gone and there's only so much music, might as well try it. Boy was I pleasantly surprised. I like it way more than the Elegant Soul LP that preceded it.

[JSngry]

Did Coldwater Flat see CD only in Japan? That was a Jack Tracy joint, and is a bit of a favorite, what with the Oliver Nelson charts, not unlike Joyride, only with more pop tunes for Gene to do his thing with. Which, imo, is a very good thing, or was in this case. "Last Train To Clarkesville" never again had its existence justified like it did here.

[felser]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Did Coldwater Flat see CD only in Japan? That was a Jack Tracy joint, and is a bit of a favorite, what with the Oliver Nelson charts, not unlike Joyride, only with more pop tunes for Gene to do his thing with. Which, imo, is a very good thing, or was in this case. "Last Train To Clarkesville" never again had its existence justified like it did here.

Not aware of a domestic CD of it, and I have tried hard through the years to keep track of that sort of thing.