Eric Dolphy on Blue Note?

[bertrand]

So Out To Lunch was recorded 2/25/64. Then Eric went to Europe and died there.

So had he signed a long-term contract with Blue Note and sadly, the second album was not to be, or was it always intended as a one-off? Would a copy of the contract still exist? Was it not renewed due to a publishing dispute?

Bertrand. 

[felser]

24 minutes ago, bertrand said:

So Out To Lunch was recorded 2/25/64. Then Eric went to Europe and died there.

So had he signed a long-term contract with Blue Note and sadly, the second album was not to be, or was it always intended as a one-off? Would a copy of the contract still exist? Was it not renewed due to a publishing dispute?

Bertrand. 

He died in June 1964 and my internet search says the album was not released until August 1964, so there would not have been time for anything concerning publishing or contract renewal, I don't think.

[bertrand]

That's a good point regarding the release date, but it is still possible the contract was for one record only and not active when he died. They released the record any way, of course. It still does not tell us if he intended to continue recording for Blue Note or not. I think his European sojourn was open-ended, so he may have told Blue Note he could not commit to another recording soon. It would be nice to see the contract. 

[danasgoodstuff]

He played on Andrew Hill's Point of Departure around the same time, to me that's some indication that they meant it to be an ongoing thing.  BN didn't usually do one offs.

[Gheorghe]

3 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

He played on Andrew Hill's Point of Departure around the same time, to me that's some indication that they meant it to be an ongoing thing.  BN didn't usually do one offs.

I also think that the Point of Departure indicated that they wanted to go on recording Dolphy. they signed some important Avantgarde Artists that time. 

Yeah, they didn´t usually do one Offs. One exception was Charlie Rouse ´s "Bossa Nova Bacchanal", this was the only Album Charlie Rouse made under his own Name for BN, same Thing Art Taylor´s Album.....

[Kevin Bresnahan]

If he had a contract with Blue Note, wouldn't that have prevented Fontana from releasing "Last Date" without saying "appears courtesy of Blue Note" or some such legal BS, at least on the US releases?

You could always ask Michael Cuscuna. He is usually very open to answering questions like this.

[felser]

4 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

I also think that the Point of Departure indicated that they wanted to go on recording Dolphy. they signed some important Avantgarde Artists that time. 

Yeah, they didn´t usually do one Offs. One exception was Charlie Rouse ´s "Bossa Nova Bacchanal", this was the only Album Charlie Rouse made under his own Name for BN, same Thing Art Taylor´s Album.....

Sheila Jordan, Sonny Red, Duke Jordan, Dodo Greene, and there were others.

 

[clifford_thornton]

my Liberty copy of Out To Lunch notes that "Eric Dolphy performs by courtesy of FM Records" on the back slick. He was signed to Fred Miles and Conversations was the prior release. Iron Man (Douglas) and of course Last Date came out after Dolphy's departure.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

41 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

my Liberty copy of Out To Lunch notes that "Eric Dolphy performs by courtesy of FM Records" on the back slick. He was signed to Fred Miles and Conversations was the prior release. Iron Man (Douglas) and of course Last Date came out after Dolphy's departure.

Well there you go #bertrand, he wasn't ever signed to Blue Note.

[J.A.W.]

12 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

I also think that the Point of Departure indicated that they wanted to go on recording Dolphy. they signed some important Avantgarde Artists that time. 

Yeah, they didn´t usually do one Offs. One exception was Charlie Rouse ´s "Bossa Nova Bacchanal", this was the only Album Charlie Rouse made under his own Name for BN, same Thing Art Taylor´s Album.....

 

7 hours ago, felser said:

Sheila Jordan, Sonny Red, Duke Jordan, Dodo Greene, and there were others.

 

John Coltrane was another one with his Blue Train.

[danasgoodstuff]

BN wanted to record more Coltrane, but he signed with Prestige so they couldn't.  They made several attempts at another Charlie rouse album but they weren't up to Afred's standards.  This was often the case with those who had only one album issued, there was more than one session recorded but they either weren't up to snuff or the sales of the first issued were too disappointing.  Some of these subsequent attempts at a follow-up album have either been issued on their own or as bonus tracks - for instance 5 tracks from Sonny Red's Jan 23, 1960 session were added to the CD of Out of the Blue.  I don't think one-offs were often or ever part of the plan, but things happen.

[JSngry]

Fred Jackson

[danasgoodstuff]

1 minute ago, JSngry said:

Fred Jackson

2nd session where he recorded a full album's worth, added to the CD reissue of Hootin' & Tootin'

[JSngry]

But like you said about Charlie Rouse, not up to Alfred's standards.

Johnny Coles.

[danasgoodstuff]

2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

But like you said about Charlie Rouse, not up to Alfred's standards.

Johnny Coles.

More likely the first one didn't sell or it just got lost in the shuffle (no pun intended).  I think Jackson's 2nd is every bit as good as the first, maybe better.  J. Coles - no idea what happened there.

7 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Fred Jackson

2nd session where he recorded a full album's worth, added to the CD reissue of Hootin' & Tootin'

[mjzee]

12 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said:

2nd session where he recorded a full album's worth, added to the CD reissue of Hootin' & Tootin'

The CD’s liner notes state there was a note on the session log from Alfred Lion: good session, but too short.

[felser]

3 hours ago, J.A.W. said:

 

John Coltrane was another one with his Blue Train.

Good point!

[danasgoodstuff]

4 hours ago, mjzee said:

The CD’s liner notes state there was a note on the session log from Alfred Lion: good session, but too short.

7 tunes, roughly 35 minutes

[Son Of Ice Bag]

Adderley - with Miles Davis

Edited December 5, 2020 by Son Of Ice Bag

[danasgoodstuff]

2 hours ago, Son Of Ice Bag said:

Adderley - with Miles Davis

Again, I don't think he was available to do more, and they did use him as a sideman under an alias.

[jazzbo]

Right, and the album with an alias I believe was slated to be a Transition before that label halted.

[jlhoots]

9 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

Right, and the album with an alias I believe was slated to be a Transition before that label halted.

Buckshot La Funke or something like that.

Edited December 5, 2020 by jlhoots

[bertrand]

There are a number of one-offs, each with its own story. Sometimes it was about sales, but not always.

[danasgoodstuff]

8 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

Buckshot La Fonke or something like that.

Buckshot La Funke on Louis Smith's Here Comes...  BN1584 recorded for Transition in Feb 1958 a couple of months before Cannonball's Something Else.  Something Else comes in-between Adderly's affiliations with EmArcy and Riverside.  I have to think BN would've recorded him more if they could.

7 minutes ago, bertrand said:

There are a number of one-offs, each with its own story. Sometimes it was about sales, but not always.

This.

[gmonahan]

On 12/3/2020 at 3:59 PM, danasgoodstuff said:

BN wanted to record more Coltrane, but he signed with Prestige so they couldn't.  They made several attempts at another Charlie rouse album but they weren't up to Afred's standards.  This was often the case with those who had only one album issued, there was more than one session recorded but they either weren't up to snuff or the sales of the first issued were too disappointing.  Some of these subsequent attempts at a follow-up album have either been issued on their own or as bonus tracks - for instance 5 tracks from Sonny Red's Jan 23, 1960 session were added to the CD of Out of the Blue.  I don't think one-offs were often or ever part of the plan, but things happen.

I wonder about that. "Blue Trane" was recorded right in the middle of Trane's Prestige sessions.

 

 

gregmo