Sonny Rollins and Max Roach

[Milestones]

This may be my favorite partnership of a lead player and drummer in all of jazz history, at least the equal of Coltrane and Elvin--though not as well documented.

I count 7 albums by Rollins on which Max is the drummer, and what greatness we find there.  Some, such as Saxophone Colossus, are among the greatest jazz records ever waxed.  

There are some appearances by Sonny on records by Max Roach and by Roach/Brown.  The are together on Kenny Dorham's Jazz Contrasts.

As far as I know, they last appeared together in 1958...on Freedom Suite.  if that was it, we sure had some missed opportunities.

Is there some live stuff out there?  Some bootlegs?

 

 

[HutchFan]

48 minutes ago, Milestones said:

This may be my favorite partnership of a lead player and drummer in all of jazz history, at least the equal of Coltrane and Elvin--though not as well documented.

I count 7 albums by Rollins on which Max is the drummer, and what greatness we find there.  Some, such as Saxophone Colossus, are among the greatest jazz records ever waxed.  

There are some appearances by Sonny on records by Max Roach and by Roach/Brown.  The are together on Kenny Dorham's Jazz Contrasts.

As far as I know, they last appeared together in 1958...on Freedom Suite.  if that was it, we sure had some missed opportunities.

Is there some live stuff out there?  Some bootlegs?

 

I'd be interesting in knowing if there are other Roach - Rollins recordings too!  

 

Milestones, I assume that you're aware of this one:

Clifford Brown & Max Roach - Live at the Bee Hive (Columbia, 1979)

Recorded in 1955.  Rollins isn't the only tenor on these sides.  There's also Nicky Hill.

 

[JSngry]

Get your pitch corrections tools ready to work overtime, but worth it.

Brown/Roach/Rollins, there are broadcasts.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

There was this, it said 'vol.1' but I don't think there was ever a vol.2  I think the tapes came from Clifford's widow.  As much as I love this band, my favorite private taping of Clifford is the drum shop in Philly with a bunch of locals that came out on Beginning and the End, the joy in his playing there is palatable.   Sonny and Max were an effective team but I'm guessing that working together may have reminded them too much of Clifford after he was gone.  I had all the airshots, etc. I could find of them together at one point and cut back.

[jazzcorner]

 

On the first Rollins is missing b ut the other 3 are with Rollins & Roach

4 hours ago, Milestones said:

This may be my favorite partnership of a lead player and drummer in all of jazz history, at least the equal of Coltrane and Elvin--though not as well documented.

I count 7 albums by Rollins on which Max is the drummer, and what greatness we find there.  Some, such as Saxophone Colossus, are among the greatest jazz records ever waxed.  

There are some appearances by Sonny on records by Max Roach and by Roach/Brown.

Here are some on CD  ---> more to come - I'll put them tgether in some cover tableaus and post them here

 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by jazzcorner
Text added

[Gheorghe]

22 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Get your pitch corrections tools ready to work overtime, but worth it.

Brown/Roach/Rollins, there are broadcasts.

 

This one is great, on side 1 the Max Roach Quintet with Freddie Hubbard cursing at the audience (JAMFs) 

And the wonderful Rollins with Roach and J. Merit. 

This should be re-issued on CD, it might be possible since from the tapes made in Graz (my homecountry Austria) were some of them reissued recently like the Giuffree 3 live in Graz and the Coltrane quartet live in Graz.

[jazzcorner]

More on Rollins - Roach collaboration

 

 

[Mark Stryker]

32 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Get your pitch corrections tools ready to work overtime, but worth it.

Brown/Roach/Rollins, there are broadcasts.

 

Not sure why the cover says 1963, but these recordings were made November 12, 1966, in Graz. I don't have this issue, but I assume the "untitled" piece is "Lover," which I have heard. I think there are two additional songs, "Poinciana" and "Love Walked In." Can anyone confirm the set list?

[JSngry]

4 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:

Not sure why the cover says 1963, but these recordings were made November 12, 1966, in Graz. I don't have this issue, but I assume the "untitled" piece is "Lover," which I have heard. I think there are two additional songs, "Poinciana" and "Love Walked In." Can anyone confirm the set list?

No, on this one it's "Love Walked In". Lover is on this one:

Pitch is so bad, sonny sounds like an alto. But still sounds like Sonny, so it's ok, as far as that goes.

 

[Milestones]

So there is a sprinkling of stuff, but not easy to find--and it would seem the sound quality is usually poor.

Many years ago I picked up Pure Genius, Vol. 1 by Brownie...on vinyl.  I recall enjoying that a lot.  I'm thinking this has never appeared on CD?

 

[Mark Stryker]

8 minutes ago, JSngry said:

No, on this one it's "Love Walked In". Lover is on this one:

Pitch is so bad, sonny sounds like an alto. But still sounds like Sonny, so it's ok, as far as that goes.

 

OK, so there are three total Sonny/Max tracks from this concert -- Love Walked In, Lover, Poinciana -- that have found their way into the world via various recordings in various combinations. Yes?

FWIW, I heard a pitch corrected version of "Lover" at one point -- not sure if it was done privately or if it was taken from  release that's out there. In any case, Sounds is back on tenor and the track runs  about three minutes longer than the one on which Sonny sounds like he's playing alto. 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Mark Stryker

[jazzcorner]

One more compilation of 3 LP's , one is with Rollins & Roach, 2 are with Land & Roach. Sorry for the mistake

 

corrected

 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by jazzcorner
text added

[JSngry]

26 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:

OK, so there are three total Sonny/Max tracks from this concert -- Love Walked In, Lover, Poinciana -- that have found their way into the world via various recordings in various combinations. Yes?

Yes.

1 hour ago, danasgoodstuff said:

There was this, it said 'vol.1' but I don't think there was ever a vol.2  I think the tapes came from Clifford's widow. 

I may be wrong, but I think they came from Max. Him & Bruce Lundvall haed a good relationship that carried over to Columbia.

[jazzcorner]

53 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Yes.

I may be wrong, but I think they came from Max. Him & Bruce Lundvall haed a good relationship that carried over to Columbia.

I have this LP. The tapes came from Mrs. LaRue Brown and were remastered by Bruce after 25 years. Thats the text on the backside of the LP.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by jazzcorner
text changed

[JSngry]

Ok, Max brokered the deal, then. I know he was in the mix somewhere.

[erhodes]

Sonny Rollins, Jymie Merit, Max Roach

November 1, 1966, Paris

Will You Still Be Mine

Medley - There Will Never Be Another You / Three Little Words (almost a half hour)

November 6, 1966, England, Reading University, add Ronnie Matthews (p); TV show, "Jazz Goes to College"

St. Thomas (just a very short introduction)

Will You Still Be Mine (about 25 minutes)

November 10, 1966, Stockholm, Koncerthuset

There Will Never Be Another You

November 11, 1966 Copenhagen, Tivoli's Koncertsal

It Could Happen to You (about 17 minutes)

November 12, 1966, Graz,

Love Walked In, Jazz Connoisseru JC108

Lover (about 16 minutes), Unique Jazz UJ29

Poinciana (about 16 minutes), Jazz Connoisseru JC108

 

The Graz concert does indeed run very fast.  I slowed mine down by matching the pitch of Nommo (Roach quintet part of the concert) to the "Drums Unlimited" lp.  Nommo still plays faster thant the lp but the resulting pitches on the Rollins part of the concert sound about right.

Lover, from the Graz concert, has been my favorite Rollins solo for a long time.  The long medley from Paris is a spectacular performance from all involved.  Recently found the Stockholm concert, which also has tracks by the Roach quintet.  The Stockholm was a surprise to me but, overall, this stuff is not terribly rare.

 

[Mark Stryker]

4 hours ago, erhodes said:

Sonny Rollins, Jymie Merit, Max Roach

November 1, 1966, Paris

Will You Still Be Mine

Medley - There Will Never Be Another You / Three Little Words (almost a half hour)

November 6, 1966, England, Reading University, add Ronnie Matthews (p); TV show, "Jazz Goes to College"

St. Thomas (just a very short introduction)

Will You Still Be Mine (about 25 minutes)

November 10, 1966, Stockholm, Koncerthuset

There Will Never Be Another You

November 11, 1966 Copenhagen, Tivoli's Koncertsal

It Could Happen to You (about 17 minutes)

November 12, 1966, Graz,

Love Walked In, Jazz Connoisseru JC108

Lover (about 16 minutes), Unique Jazz UJ29

Poinciana (about 16 minutes), Jazz Connoisseru JC108

 

The Graz concert does indeed run very fast.  I slowed mine down by matching the pitch of Nommo (Roach quintet part of the concert) to the "Drums Unlimited" lp.  Nommo still plays faster thant the lp but the resulting pitches on the Rollins part of the concert sound about right.

Lover, from the Graz concert, has been my favorite Rollins solo for a long time.  The long medley from Paris is a spectacular performance from all involved.  Recently found the Stockholm concert, which also has tracks by the Roach quintet.  The Stockholm was a surprise to me but, overall, this stuff is not terribly rare.

 

The audio from the British TV show of Nov. 6 has surfaced on YouTube.

 

[soulpope]

4 hours ago, Mark Stryker said:

The audio from the British TV show of Nov. 6 has surfaced on YouTube.

 

Thnx for sharing ....

[soulpope]

9 hours ago, erhodes said:

Sonny Rollins, Jymie Merit, Max Roach

November 1, 1966, Paris

Will You Still Be Mine

Medley - There Will Never Be Another You / Three Little Words (almost a half hour)

 

 The long medley from Paris is a spectacular performance from all involved.  

Unreleased .... leaked somewhere .... ? Infos much appreciated ....

[jazzcorner]

On 30.10.2020 at 4:41 PM, HutchFan said:

Milestones, I assume that you're aware of this one:

Clifford Brown & Max Roach - Live at the Bee Hive (Columbia, 1979)

Recorded in 1955.  Rollins isn't the only tenor on these sides.  There's also Nicky Hill

 

Does this CD have the volumes I & II  shown below as content?

I have these 2  2 LPs but have to admit the playback sound is really worse.  The recordings were made from Max' private tapes

OTOH The GNP release is excellent.

 

 

[Peter Friedman]

I like this one a lot.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

On 10/30/2020 at 1:31 PM, Mark Stryker said:

FWIW, I heard a pitch corrected version of "Lover" at one point -- not sure if it was done privately or if it was taken from  release that's out there. In any case, Sounds is back on tenor and the track runs  about three minutes longer than the one on which Sonny sounds like he's playing alto. 

If correcting the pitch adds 3 minutes to the tune, we now know why it was sped up in the first place. It was already clocking in at 25:00, which is pretty long for an LP side. Bumping that up to 28:00, would have been unmanageable without completely removing a lot of bass and even then, the grooves would be tightly packed and prone to skips.

[soulpope]

13 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

I like this one a lot.

Same here ....

[JSngry]

45 minutes ago, bresna said:

If correcting the pitch adds 3 minutes to the tune, we now know why it was sped up in the first place. It was already clocking in at 25:00, which is pretty long for an LP side. Bumping that up to 28:00, would have been unmanageable without completely removing a lot of bass and even then, the grooves would be tightly packed and prone to skips.

It was a bootleg record from a bootleg tape. The tape speed as released was almost certainly original to the tape itself, especially since the whole session had the same issue.

[HutchFan]

4 hours ago, jazzcorner said:

Does this CD have the volumes I & II  shown below as content?

I have these 2 LPs but have to admit the playback sound is really worse.  The recordings were made from Max' private tapes

OTOH The GNP release is excellent.

jazzcorner, 

I don't think the Bee Hive LPs have ever been issued on CD.  Sound is not good.  Music is great.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by HutchFan