Miles Davis- Paris Olympia Theatre March 1960

[Stonewall15]

LaserLight CDs 17409 and 17410 show date of 3/20/1960; Youtube shows date of 3/21/60. Which is correct?

The session is not shown in the Lord Discography.

[Chuck Nessa]

My Trema/Europe 1 edition says the 20th but Bruyninckx says the 21st. Possibly a midnight concert.

[EKE BBB]

According to Peter Losin’s Miles Davis discography, it was the 21st:

March 21 (Monday, 7:30 and 10:00 pm), Olympia Theatre, Paris

[Stonewall15]

Maybe started 3/20 at 10pm and lasted until after Midnight into 3/21?

 

[Enterprise Server]

The  Miles Davis and John Coltrane dated 21 Mars 1960 is awesome. But the later Paris concert with Sonny Stitt was something I can live without. While Sonny Stitt was a fine musican...he always seemed out of place in Miles's group. He just did not hack for me. When I was very young, I cut my teeth on Sonny Stitt's Prestige recordings and I greatly enjoyed his playing. But hearing him try to play with Miles was another matter altogether. I just couldn't and still can't deal with it. I don't feel that way with Sam Rivers and George Coleman. But brother Sonny sounds like the odd man out. Any opinions on this..?

[Rooster_Ties]

Sonny Stitt is ‘alright’ with/in Miles quintet in 1960 — at least based on the two documented Stockholm concerts on Dragon (first one with Trane, then with Stitt on the groups return visit).

Ok, but what IS notable is how much stronger/more fiery Miles’ playing is with Stitt (vs with Trane).

I’ve said this for many years, that at least on the uptempo tunes — I’d honesty take Miles’ playing with Stitt (over Miles w/ Trane) in a heartbeat.

I can take or leave Stitt’s playing with Miles (though I do prefer Stitt’s over Hank Mobley’s playing with Miles in 1961 — and I don’t think Miles is especially better with Hank, as he was with Sonny).

Many factors at play when comparing these groups - not just the playing of the 2nd horn / foil to Miles.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

It's funny, but I love Mobley with Miles in 1961 more because it's a 1961 recording of Hank Mobley, when the Hankster was in his prime. I don't listen to those live Blackhawk dates for Miles. I listen because of Mobley and that killer rhythm section.

[jazzbo]

I really like the Blackhawk recordings as well. . . and listen for Miles as well as for Mobley and "the Trio." Interesting recordings as well. I have the originally released material on vinyl as well as the complete on cd.

[JSngry]

[Bluesnik]

5 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Ok, but what IS notable is how much stronger/more fiery Miles’ playing is with Stitt (vs with Trane).

That's what the liners say in a boxset I have of the series Live in Paris, which documents two concerts at the Olympia in 1960: one with Trane from march 21 and one with Stitt from October 11. The liners say Miles plays much better with Stitt than with Trane, who casts a deep shadow over him. And that's true. The album, or 4 CD set is this one:

It's from 2014 and Fremeaux.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

2 hours ago, Bluesnik said:

That's what the liners say in a boxset I have of the series Live in Paris, which documents two concerts at the Olympia in 1960: one with Trane from march 21 and one with Stitt from October 11. The liners say Miles plays much better with Stitt than with Trane, who casts a deep shadow over him. And that's true. The album, or 4 CD set is this one:

It's from 2014 and Fremeaux.

I don't know about that... Miles' shadow looks pretty big here.

[JSngry]

Miles had a role he liked to play in terms of group dynamics/energy/etc. Trane let him fill that role, Stitt did not. so Miles adjusted.

[Guy Berger]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

Miles had a role he liked to play in terms of group dynamics/energy/etc. Trane let him fill that role, Stitt did not. so Miles adjusted.

Also interesting that once Wayne joined, this duality became much more fluid.  both horns could wear both hats

[JSngry]

Miles usually had bands. Not groups, but bands. What was he going to do with Sonny Stitt in a band? Sonny Stitt was going to do Sonny Stitt, period, no matter what the gig was. He was never going to fall below nor rise above a certain level.  Nothing wrong with Sonny Stitt, just...it happens before it happens, if you know what I mean. I think it maybe took Miles a little bit to decide that somebody else could put their name on that, but it wasn't going to be him.

The funny thing is that Sonny Stitt had a GREAT band, that trio with Don Patterson, Billy James, and the Varitone as heard on that Left Bank record, oh Lord have mercy, that was a band! 

 

[danasgoodstuff]

This seems like as good a place as any to ask, are there any recordings of Miles while either Rocky Boyd or Frank Strozier were in the band?  An I agree that Stitt was not the right fit.  I don't want Miles to necessarily play more - less is more is (part of) what makes him Miles.

[medjuck]

4 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

This seems like as good a place as any to ask, are there any recordings of Miles while either Rocky Boyd or Frank Strozier were in the band?  An I agree that Stitt was not the right fit.  I don't want Miles to necessarily play more - less is more is (part of) what makes him Miles.

Or JJ Johnson. 

[EKE BBB]

11 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

This seems like as good a place as any to ask, are there any recordings of Miles while either Rocky Boyd or Frank Strozier were in the band? 

There aren’t, according to Peter Losin’s Miles Ahead discography.

[AllenLowe]

I think Miles with Stitt was beneficial to both. Stitt couldn't coast and probably was making more $$$ than usual,  and Miles was still Miles. And this is an excellent Stitt solo (though his solos on some of these concerts do go on too long, as though he was having trouble figuring out where to stop):

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by AllenLowe

[Tom in RI]

On 10/23/2020 at 9:38 AM, jazzbo said:

I really like the Blackhawk recordings as well. . . and listen for Miles as well as for Mobley and "the Trio." Interesting recordings as well. I have the originally released material on vinyl as well as the complete on cd.

Didn’t the original vinyl release cut a lot of Hank’s solos?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

1 hour ago, Tom in RI said:

Didn’t the original vinyl release cut a lot of Hank’s solos?

Yes they did.

[jazzbo]

"A lot?" No.

[GA Russell]

On 10/23/2020 at 2:21 PM, bresna said:

I don't know about that... Miles' shadow looks pretty big here.

Is any of this on the recent Miles/Coltrane release?

And is this any better than most of what's available?