Eddie Van Halen dead at 65 from metastatic throat cancer

[Rabshakeh]

4 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

I'm not a metalhead, nor a Van Halen fan, but my impression from reading far too many discussions online re what is and isn't metal is that definitions have shifted since the '70s & '80s in a way that excludes many bands whose initial fans would've thought of them as metal.  I won't even try to elucidate the hair splitting over the difference between heavy metal and just plain metal...

Sure. It’s only really in 1979 that “heavy metal” definitely emerges as a genre rather than an adjective. I guess you could make a case that any metal band from earlier than that Is actually “hard rock” or “heavy prog” or “psychedelic blues” or “shock rock”. Van Halen is right at that border chronologically.

[danasgoodstuff]

Just now, Rabshakeh said:

Sure. It’s only really in 1979 that “heavy metal” definitely emerges as a genre rather than an adjective. I guess you could make a case that any metal band from earlier than that Is actually “hard rock” or “heavy prog” or “psychedelic blues” or “shock rock”. Van Halen is right at that border chronologically.

That seems pretty in line with what I've seen.  Some like to draw hard 'n fast borders and get very purist about it - 'no blues' for example - and by their standards I suppose Van Halen is not metal and neither are Led Zep or even Sabbath.  Painting themselves into a very narrow corner, it seems to me...  I don't even like to split hairs about hard bop v. soul jazz, genres I'm far more interested in, but I do have fairly formal boundaries for boogaloo, but I see that as a type of song or performance style and not as a genre.  I suppose someone could dabble in metal yert remain outside the genre, but that seems unlikely to endear you to metalheads.

[Rabshakeh]

1 hour ago, danasgoodstuff said:

That seems pretty in line with what I've seen.  Some like to draw hard 'n fast borders and get very purist about it - 'no blues' for example - and by their standards I suppose Van Halen is not metal and neither are Led Zep or even Sabbath.  Painting themselves into a very narrow corner, it seems to me...  I don't even like to split hairs about hard bop v. soul jazz, genres I'm far more interested in, but I do have fairly formal boundaries for boogaloo, but I see that as a type of song or performance style and not as a genre.  I suppose someone could dabble in metal yert remain outside the genre, but that seems unlikely to endear you to metalheads.

It doesn't help that a lot of it is a question of style and perception.

Deep Purple and early Judas Priest made basically the same kind of music at times, but Deep Purple are placed in the "are they or aren't they?" category with Led Zep, whereas Priest were identifiably leading the speed metal charge in the late 70s / 80s.

That's mostly down to how they dressed and their lyrical themes, rather than their music. 

The other band leading the charge, at least as I had always seen it, was Van Halen, which along with Priest is the metal band that I would say was most responsible for "modernising" the sound of metal as it moved into the 80s and turned into a recognisable genre. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Rabshakeh

[mjazzg]

 

I never realised there was so much genre debate but it doesn't surprise me.

What no mention of the mighty Motorhead? They really shifted our definition of Heavy Metal away from the til then yardstick of Black Sabbath

I was seeing a lot of these bands live late 70s. I hadn't really thought much about it all until reading this thread.

I always thought Judas Priest were show ponies which is exactly the point that Rabshakeh makes about them, I think. They were taking the music away from the Deep Purple/Black Sabbath/Uriah Heep lineage. That lineage/was being continued by the likes of pre-pop Rainbow and latter incarnations, split offs of the original line ups, such as Gillan.

The Europeans were making waves with The Scorpions (always preferred Schenker to Van Halen as a guitarist at the time) and bands like Krokus.

The NWOBHM bands were in the mix too. Iron Maiden, Saxon ( who blew JP off the stage as their support one time I saw them), Diamond Head, Angel Witch. Some like Maiden were obviously aiming  a commercial sound from quite early on

When I saw Van Halen's first UK gig in '79 I didn't make any connection with the UK heavy scene, they sounded very American - slick, song driven, heavy rock but not Metal at all. Just listen to 'You really got me', it's the original dialled up to 11. We thought they were great but were poppy compared to what we'd been listening to. More akin to AC/DC or early Def Leppard in approach if not sound - hook and song driven.

Thankfully the Clash saved me....

Edited October 13, 2020 by mjazzg

[Dub Modal]

12 hours ago, EKE BBB said:

David Crosby is always making new friends...

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/david-crosby-eddie-van-halen-tweet/

 

One of the things I enjoyed about McGowan's Laurel Canyon writings was his dislike for all things Crosby for reasons illustrated by that tweet. 

RIP EVH. His playing and solos are etched in my brain despite never actually buying a VH album. It was just absorbed from living in those times at a certain age. 

[JSngry]

I miss seeing David Crosby on Hollywood Squares, and wish I could have seen Eddie Van Halen on there too, him and his wife in the same square!

Too late for that now. Kids, take a lesson  - never squander an opportunity.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

David actually forgot he died or he wouldn't of said anything about what he thought, he said.  theres been an update since that happened.  The meh stands however to how david feels about van halen.  Its kind like how Hank Mobley didn't really care or know that while he played his gig at the angry squire nyc 1985, the #1 song on the radio was Starship- "we built this city".  that was like completely off Hanks radar.  

[clifford_thornton]

1 hour ago, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

David actually forgot he died or he wouldn't of said anything about what he thought, he said.  theres been an update since that happened.  The meh stands however to how david feels about van halen.  Its kind like how Hank Mobley didn't really care or know that while he played his gig at the angry squire nyc 1985, the #1 song on the radio was Starship- "we built this city".  that was like completely off Hanks radar.  

[JSngry]

Completely off it, yeah!

[catesta]

12 hours ago, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

David actually forgot he died or he wouldn't of said anything about what he thought, he said.  theres been an update since that happened.  The meh stands however to how david feels about van halen.  Its kind like how Hank Mobley didn't really care or know that while he played his gig at the angry squire nyc 1985, the #1 song on the radio was Starship- "we built this city".  that was like completely off Hanks radar.  

Crosby is a social media whore, so the " I forgot he died" excuse is pretty lame.

I mean sure, Mobley might have said who built what where? Crosby though knew exactly who EVH was and he definitely heard that he passed, otherwise how could he have forgot about it? He was just being a pompous dick.

Edited October 14, 2020 by catesta

[JSngry]

Well, at least he never claimed that tablature had to be invented because of him!

Then again, hey, rock truth.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Well, at least he never claimed that tablature had to be invented because of him!

Then again, hey, rock truth.

Van Halen never said that tablature was invented because of him. He noted that some of his techniques required new styles of tabs to show just how he was playing some of his notes.

I get it Jim - you don't like the guy. Fine. But can't you just stay out of an RIP thread about him if that's the case?

[JSngry]

Why do you think I don't like him? I like lots of VH songs (first one that always comes to mind is "Panama", but a close second is the memory of hearing "You Really Got Me" for the first time on radio while mopping floors at Burger King one night). Always good memories.

But it's poprockrockpop, and not particularly deep rock at that (did VH EVER wade into deeper waters, even on a side project?). Excellently played, even more excellently produced, a product to be proud of and enjoyed, absolutely. But not at all deep or otherwise worthy of serious (i.e. - ongoing, developing) thought. appreciation, yes. Thought? No. If it's there for you good, but, uh....have fun with that, then.

It was hormonal ear-candy for hormone-sensitive peoples. I have been, and sometimes still am, that. The difference between now and then, though, is that I recognize it for what it is and allocate resources accordingly. People mourn the loss of their youth, well, big fucking deal. An adult should mourn the loss of nothing from their youth, they should only appreciate what they have in place of it. Now, if you don't have anything to replace it, that's not my problem.

But I liked him just fine, still do. I can't tell you how hormonal that some of my congratulations were for him marrying Valerie B back in the day, hey, wow. And as far as him being an asshole, hell, most people are, even you and even me.

 

He was a better guitar player than Helen Reddy, for sure. But was he that much more of an "artist"? Well, to a certain degree, sure. But only to a certain degree.

[clifford_thornton]

I assume you mean the other Valerie B... not the one from this board.

[JSngry]

Definitely!

Never entered my mind that there might be confusion on that regard...did Ms Bishop ever give reason for there to be?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

17 hours ago, catesta said:

Crosby is a social media whore, so the " I forgot he died" excuse is pretty lame.

I mean sure, Mobley might have said who built what where? Crosby though knew exactly who EVH was and he definitely heard that he passed, otherwise how could he have forgot about it? He was just being a pompous dick.

now hold on a sec David has participating in online communicating since the pre WWW days... twitters just the latest interface!

[Brad]

On 10/13/2020 at 2:37 AM, EKE BBB said:

David Crosby is always making new friends...

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/david-crosby-eddie-van-halen-tweet/

 

Sometimes he doesn’t know when to be quiet. He’s feeding with Graham Nash, who had been one of his big supporters. 

[medjuck]

4 hours ago, Brad said:

Sometimes he doesn’t know when to be quiet. He’s feeding with Graham Nash, who had been one of his big supporters. 

Uhhh"feuding" maybe?   There's a documentary about Crosby where he talks a lot about what an asshole he's been and how he's managed to alienate each of the other members of CSN&Y.  

[clifford_thornton]

18 hours ago, JSngry said:

Definitely!

Never entered my mind that there might be confusion on that regard...did Ms Bishop ever give reason for there to be?

I only think of one ValerieB and she is, was, and always will be here!

[JSngry]

Hey, she used to work for Ike Turner, remember, so anything is possible...but with E. Van Halen, "Valerie" will always mean Bertinelli in my mind.

They lasted a helluva lot longer than I expected, but you know, a good woman won't put up with shit forever, a good woman will draw the line at some point, and where it goes from there is up to you, totally up to you.

Same holds true for a good man, but I don't know if there's nearly as many of those...

[Brad]

7 hours ago, medjuck said:

Uhhh"feuding" maybe?   There's a documentary about Crosby where he talks a lot about what an asshole he's been and how he's managed to alienate each of the other members of CSN&Y.  

Yes, feuding. I don’t think he and Nash even talk anymore. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

15 hours ago, JSngry said:

Hey, she used to work for Ike Turner, remember, so anything is possible...but with E. Van Halen, "Valerie" will always mean Bertinelli in my mind.

They lasted a helluva lot longer than I expected, but you know, a good woman won't put up with shit forever, a good woman will draw the line at some point, and where it goes from there is up to you, totally up to you.

This is right around when their marriage fell apart. Eddie with taped up shoes looking like a homeless dude... and seemingly proud of it.

  Very different Eddie from the one she married.

[JSngry]

Or maybe the same guy, just followed to a logical extreme? "Rock Star" crap.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

5 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Or maybe the same guy, just followed to a logical extreme? "Rock Star" crap.

I don't know about that... I know a lot of guys that looked worse than that and they weren't rock stars. Life crap maybe? He did seem to turn his life around later, getting cancer can do that, but by then Valerie was long gone.

[JSngry]

"Rock Star" is not just for rock musicians.