Essential John Gilmore?

[slide_advantage_redoux]

Has the Gilmore catalogue been discussed in this forum before? 

[Chuck Nessa]

That's a really tough one. I will appreciate the responses. I warmly remember my meetings with him. He was a warm human.

[Mark Stryker]

Well, the crazy think about Gilmore is that, discounting the 1957 Blue Note session that he co-led with Clifford Jordan, Gilmore never made a recording under his own name. How does that even happen, even for a self-effacing player who obviously shied away from the spotlight? Fascinating musician and a unique voice -- Trane said in an interview he was a direct influence on "Chasin' the Trane." Lots of dark mysteries in Gilmore's sound, rhythm, note choices, articulation, and texture.

Two quartet records (saxophone plus rhythm) where he gets a lot of space and to which I return frequently:

Pete LaRoca's  "Turkish Women at the Bath" (1967). Quartet with Chick Corea on piano and Walter Book on bass

Paul Bley's "Turning Point," quartet with Peacock and Motian (1964)..

Edited September 11, 2020 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

Outside or Ra, the Andrew Hill records + the Paul Bley (I have it on IA, which is where I think it is best served?) are no-questions-asked essential.

If you disagree, you are wrong.

[Chuck Nessa]

He's on a Frubbie Heddard Impulse.

[Mark Stryker]

Yes, should've added Hill's "Andrew!" and "Compulsion" to my short list. I also like the Freddie Hubbard record, "The Artistry of Freddie Hubbard," for hearing Gilmore with a more mainstream rhythm section.

Seriously, though, does anyone know why he never recorded as a leader?  

[Rooster_Ties]

Can someone remind me, has this program/footage ever been released commercially?

 

[Chuck Nessa]

7 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:

Yes, should've added Hill's "Andrew!" and "Compulsion" to my short list. I also like the Freddie Hubbard record, "The Artistry of Freddie Hubbard," for hearing Gilmore with a more mainstream rhythm section.

Seriously, though, does anyone know why he never recorded as a leader?  

JSangry mentioned them above.

[Mark Stryker]

1 minute ago, Chuck Nessa said:

JSangry mentioned them above.

Yes, I was co-signing his post. 

Did Gilmore ever come back to Chicago as a single to play clubs etc?

[romualdo]

also

Elmo Hope - Sounds from Rikers Island

McCoy Tyner - Today & Tomorrow

[Chuck Nessa]

Not that I know. I only saw him around Ra gigs.

 

[Eric]

19 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

He's on a Frubbie Heddard Impulse.

Always particularly liked the opening of his solo on Caravan.  

[Hot Ptah]

i think that his soloing on Sun Ra's Cosmos album is very strong. My favorite Gilmore soloing from that album is on "Jazz From an Unknown Planet." I also think that his soloing on tenor saxophone and clarinet on the 2 LP live album Unity is uniformly excellent. I think that his soloing is outstanding on the 1950s live tracks from Budland in Chicago on The Eternal Myth Revealed Vol. 1 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Hot Ptah

[felser]

I have always considered this to be much less than the sum of it's parts (Gilmore, Lee Morgan, Curtis Fuller, John Hicks, Victor Sproles, Blakey), but at least it's another small group setting for Gilmore.

[Pim]

Such an underrated tenor. He is one of my absolute favorites which makes it even harder to cope with the fact he has no recordings as a leader and that small group recordings are pretty scarce. 
 

anyway I don’t have much to add. The Hill’s, the Hubbard, the Hope. It’s all highly recommended.

what about the unreleased stuff? Wasn’t there some Blue Note records that were still not released? Don’t know if that was under his own name?

[Д.Д.]

He's a sideman on Dizzy Reece's "From In to Out" (a live recording from 1970), which is pretty good. 

[Daniel A]

He gets just one solo IIRC on McCoy Tyner's Impulse album "Today and Tomorrow". 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Daniel A

[EKE BBB]

2 hours ago, Pim said:

 

what about the unreleased stuff? Wasn’t there some Blue Note records that were still not released? Don’t know if that was under his own name?

He’s on the Grant Green Feb. 12, 1964 Blue Note unissued session.

[Niko]

there's a solography for Gilmore until 1965 on Jan Evensmo's site

http://www.jazzarcheology.com/artists/john_gilmore.pdf

 

[Quasimado]

Kosmos in Blue: John Gilmore Anthology Vol. 1 (don't know if there is a volume 2) is readily available as a download. For those wary of the space music aspect of Sun Ra, it's very approachable - fine tenor and interesting arrangements.

[EKE BBB]

Out of the Sun Ra universe, he also plays in Phil Upchurch's "Feeling Blue" (Milestone, 1967).

Finally, there's an Art Blakey live date, London, March 7, 1965, included as bonus tracks in the Jazz Messengers "Are You Real" Moon disc (Paris concert, Nov. 15, 1959).

[Rooster_Ties]

The two 1978 Horo double-LP’s of the Sun Ra Quartet (with Michael Ray, and Luqman Ali on percussion) - are pretty stunning. Track down this material, by hook or crook, however you can.

New Steps was available ~8 years ago on a superb grey-market silver-disc CD (with fine liners even), Unfortunately Other Voices Other Blues hasn’t seen any similar sort of CD release, but there was a grey-market 3LP are issue of both double LP’s together (iirc), I forget the title - no idea of quality, but it’s probably pretty good I’d think.

I have that boot CD of New Steps, and Also an original LP set of OVOB that I got back in college, part of a set of ~35 Arkestra albums I bought as a bundle for $150 (including several Saturns) - a lucky find, to be sure.

All this Horo quartet material is pretty stunning (all of it studio recordings) - and important for the Gilmore quotient, but especially also for the Michael Ray (imho).

[Rabshakeh]

5 hours ago, Д.Д. said:

He's a sideman on Dizzy Reece's "From In to Out" (a live recording from 1970), which is pretty good. 

I like that one a lot. Probably my favourite of his non-Ra appearances along with Compulsion!!!! and Turkish Women. 

[Rooster_Ties]

You can tell I don’t do downloads, because I forgot to even look earlier. Here’s the two Horo quartet double LP’s, legit (far as I know).

https://sunramusic.bandcamp.com/album/new-steps

https://sunramusic.bandcamp.com/album/other-voices-other-blues

I think we’re quite fortunate that there’s even this much quartet material, fairly ‘outside’ - but not crazily so (which is just like I like it).

Did this quartet play live any? I vaguely seem to remember a live release of some sort, which (iirc), was further out than I could get very much into (or was I just imagining this quartet playing live?).

Maybe Media Dream or Disco 3000? Those titles are jumping in my head. Something I had at one point, but parted with (apparently).

[ghost of miles]

Here’s an early Night Lights show that I did:

Away From The Spaceways: John Gilmore

It focuses on his few Ra-less dates, many of which have been mentioned above.