America unleashed

[Larry Kart]

23 hours ago, riddlemay said:

I think to get at the original writer's meaning, you need to add the words "discriminated against" to the sentence that currently ends with "for these former to become." The writer is saying that if blacks are to cease being discriminated against, it is necessary for whites to start being discriminated against--because fairness is a zero-sum game. I'm not sure I agree with him (could we not achieve a world in which no one is discriminated against?) but I do understand his meaning.

I'm pretty sure that's what the writer meant. If so that's pure French blinders-on snotty battiness IMO, from a number of points of view. Given the number of whites versus blacks in this country and the wealth and power that the former group command, that's asking for a genuine race war. And WHY is fairness necessarily  a zero-sum game? Given that we're all jazz fans here, I'm sure that all of us have interacted with any number of black Americans on an equitable, genuinely friendly basis across the board and without straining in the least to do so. No need to get starry-eyed about this; it happens all the time. Do people like us represent all of white America? No. But are we exceptional? Also, no. Further, I should add, people like us are typically well aware of the interplay/overlay between black and white culture and black and white life in America in general. I'm not saying that we're all one; that would be sappy, but discrimination in the dictionary sense of "this is us" and "that is them" in an exclusive or exclusionary manner is contrary to all sorts of obvious facts of history and daily life. 

Let me recall an anecdote -- sappy though it may be -- from my childhood. At age three or so, my parents hired a baby sitter for a while to look after me some during the day.time She was a young African-American, probably not much out of her teens, and she had quite a "bounce" to her, so to speak -- I would guess, thinking back, that she spent time hanging out at the Regal Theater or similar venues,  listening and dancing to big bands. All of this, plus the pleasant way she treated me, I very much liked; and at one point, liking to draw with crayons, I asked her how I coi capture her rather cafe-au-lait skin tone. She explained that you take a yellow crayon and lay down a light layer and then add as much crayon on top as needed. What struck me -- and I know this sounds way too precocious for a kid of my age to have grasped -- was the utter relaxed insouciance of her response to my question. On the one hand, I think, she felt that at the root of my question was a recognition of difference and a sense of affection -- I wanted to create an accurate representation of her as a kind of from-me-to-her gift. But again, not only was she completely at home in her own skin, so to speak, she also swung with it. Cal this memory an example of white privilege at work if you will, but whatever that interchange really was, I'd say that it was both more than benign and mutual. We were bating the ball back and forth across the social/racial net -- in effect playing the game of life, or one of the games of life, to our mutual benefit.

[ghost of miles]

Yet more WTF:

Law enforcement seizes masks meant to protect anti-racist protesters from Covid-19

1. On what possible legal grounds could such a shipment be seized?

2. How did law enforcement even know about the contents of this shipment?

There is a lot of weird and troubling stuff going on right now that is reminiscent of an authoritarian police state, as opposed to the country that we’re supposed to be. Maybe there’s some “explanation” for this story; I’d sure like to hear it.

[jazzbo]

Trump and Barr are flexing "muscles" (yeah right) and testing limits. I'm getting a sinking feeling.

[Brad]

9 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Yet more WTF:

Law enforcement seizes masks meant to protect anti-racist protesters from Covid-19

1. On what possible legal grounds could such a shipment be seized?

2. How did law enforcement even know about the contents of this shipment?

There is a lot of weird and troubling stuff going on right now that is reminiscent of an authoritarian police state, as opposed to the country that we’re supposed to be. Maybe there’s some “explanation” for this story; I’d sure like to hear it.

That’s unbelievable. From a first amendment viewpoint, it’s illegal and an example of prior restraint. If these people start a lawsuit, I will be there to help with funding.

These actions shows that the beginnings of a dictatorship are starting in the US. 

[clifford_thornton]

Yep. 

We are going to need a lot of lawyers on our side, and judges.

[JSngry]

20 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

We are going to need a lot of lawyers on our side, and judges.

By "our side", you mean the side of any and all Americans who treasure the democratic process with all it imperfections and the U.S. Constitution, regardless of party affiliation or ideological shadings of interpretation, correct?

Because that's my side!

[catesta]

2 hours ago, Brad said:

That’s unbelievable. From a first amendment viewpoint, it’s illegal and an example of prior restraint. If these people start a lawsuit, I will be there to help with funding.

These actions shows that the beginnings of a dictatorship are starting in the US. 

Unbelievable is right.

The story is vague.

Why didn't the screen printing company just contact the US Postal Inspection Service to find out what happened as per directions? Instead he says, “We’re tired, but we’re going to try to rally some support and figure out how to replace these masks and how to support the movement.”  What? Your just going to concede this happened and not demand an explanation?

 

 

 

[clifford_thornton]

7 minutes ago, JSngry said:

By "our side", you mean the side of any and all Americans who treasure the democratic process with all it imperfections and the U.S. Constitution, regardless of party affiliation or ideological shadings of interpretation, correct?

Because that's my side!

yes.

[JSngry]

Hell yeah.

I mean, I get irked as fuck at a lot of people I love but do not necessarily  like, but the beauty of This American Life is that we can butt heads about it and still go our seperate ways free to live another day to do it again. Our humanity is allowed to differ, to argue, to get pretty heated and occasionally out of line about it - but each of us in our own way, not just one way.. This GET IN LINE shit - FUCK THAT.

At the end, it all blows up.

We all got some choices to make here.

[Brad]

3 hours ago, Brad said:

That’s unbelievable. From a first amendment viewpoint, it’s illegal and an example of prior restraint. If these people start a lawsuit, I will be there to help with funding.

These actions shows that the beginnings of a dictatorship are starting in the US. 

The masks have been released. They were held up to determine whether they contained “non-mailable matter.” Yeah, right.

Federal Agents Release Coronavirus Masks Seized From Black Lives Matter Protesters

[JSngry]

14 minutes ago, catesta said:

Unbelievable is right.

The story is vague.

Why didn't the screen printing company just contact the US Postal Inspection Service to find out what happened as per directions? Instead he says, “We’re tired, but we’re going to try to rally some support and figure out how to replace these masks and how to support the movement.”  What? Your just going to concede this happened and not demand an explanation?

I think the story is clear, and all all fronts: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/black-lives-matter-masks-coronavirus-postal-service_n_5eda7c7cc5b66ef1a924730d?00n

Happy America, Everybody!

 

[ghost of miles]

12 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I think the story is clear, and all all fronts: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/black-lives-matter-masks-coronavirus-postal-service_n_5eda7c7cc5b66ef1a924730d?00n

Happy America, Everybody!

 

Very disturbing “resolution” to that story. Nixonian is bang-on correct.  Is G. Gordon Liddy still around? Surprised he hasn’t gotten a call-up for the current crew in charge.

[Brad]

1 minute ago, ghost of miles said:

Very disturbing “resolution” to that story. Nixonian is bang-on correct.  Is G. Gordon Liddy still around? Surprised he hasn’t gotten a call-up for the current crew in charge.

My favorite Nixon character! Yes, he’s still around. 89 years old. 

[JSngry]

Nixon was only one of the two people in that picture...

[Brad]

25 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Nixon was only one of the two people in that picture...

The other one was a president 

[JSngry]

[felser]

2 hours ago, Brad said:

The masks have been released. They were held up to determine whether they contained “non-mailable matter.” Yeah, right.

Federal Agents Release Coronavirus Masks Seized From Black Lives Matter Protesters

One of my greatest concerns is the attack on the free press.   We desperately need it preserved.

[duaneiac]

4 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Yep. 

We are going to need a lot of lawyers on our side, and judges.

Good luck with the judges part.  The Republican led US Senate has been hurriedly confirming lifetime federal judicial appointments to individuals who could be charitably characterized as "unqualified".  This legacy will haunt our government and our society for decades to come.

[ejp626]

This was asked in a slightly more neutral context (last Oct.), but certainly relevant today - https://getpocket.com/explore/item/would-you-stand-up-to-an-oppressive-regime-or-would-you-conform-here-s-the-science?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Millions will be facing this choice in Hong Kong (is it worth staying and fighting or should I flee to the UK or other countries, including presumably Canada) when from a pragmatic perspective there is no realistic chance of winning against an oppressive regime.  Some may even be asking the question about the United States, given the structural imbalances in the system (particularly the judiciary) and the (for all practical purposes) impossibility of updating and improving the Constitution.  Even Justice Scalia of all people agreed it was far, far too hard to amend the Constitution - https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/05/amending-the-constitution-is-much-too-hard-blame-the-founders.html

On the flip side, rapidly changing social norms can be used for general improvements in society.  I'll be among the transportation planners trying to make masks mandatory to ride transit in the future.  As it becomes more normalized in urban society, it will become self-reinforcing and from a public safety (if not civil liberties) perspective, that is useful right now, at least until a COVID vaccine can be developed. 

But some of the other developments that go along with tracking the spread of COVID are more mixed in terms of their short-term benefit vs. long-term disbenefits of marching towards a police state featuring the ubiquitous monitoring of people's movements.

[JSngry]

Public Service Message -

Do not shove old people.

That's a thug move.

As a group, they lose their balance very easily. I am not quite yet 65, and I lose my balance with shocking ease.

But if you fuck up and do it anyway, own it, don't punk out about it.

[ejp626]

11 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Public Service Message -

Do not shove old people.

That's a thug move.

As a group, they lose their balance very easily. I am not quite yet 65, and I lose my balance with shocking ease.

But if you fuck up and do it anyway, own it, don't punk out about it.

Thin Blue Line, indeed:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/new-york-state-57-police-resign-to-support-officers-fired-for-shoving-75-year-old

[Brad]

19 minutes ago, ejp626 said:

Thin Blue Line, indeed:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/05/new-york-state-57-police-resign-to-support-officers-fired-for-shoving-75-year-old

Don’t let the door hit them on the way out.

From a PR perspective, you have to wonder what they’re thinking. 

[ejp626]

This protect all members at all costs mentality, which is basically a design feature of many (not all) unions, is definitely problematic.  I'll just stop there.

[HutchFan]

35 minutes ago, ejp626 said:

This protect all members at all costs mentality, which is basically a design feature of many (not all) unions, is definitely problematic.  I'll just stop there.

Tribalism.

 

[JSngry]

And because I am fair about stupidity, one more Public Service Message -

No matter your age, do NOT get close enough to ANY police officer that they can shove you. Because some of them are just stupid enough to not give a damn. So at least TRY to be smarter than them.