Machito Recordings for Norman Granz

[Teasing the Korean]

I have the Pablo CD with 24 tracks Machito did for Norman Granz, and it sounds like it has been excessively no-noised. 

The tracks on the Verve "Original Mambo Kings" collection sound much better. 

Is there a better alternative to the Pablo CD? I realize these are far from audiophile recordings. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Teasing the Korean

[mikeweil]

Several tracks were reissued on Verve compilations with much better sound. To me it sounds like Pablo used an old tape transfer, where Verve had access to much better sources. Now whether these still exisr after all those vault fires is another question.

The Jazz Scene double CD includes all takes of Tanga not available anywhere else.

There is a Proper Box, too, but I'll have to compare first.

Details can be found on discogs.

I for one never understood why they did not give Machito a similar treatment like they afforded the Chico O'Farrill sessions - there would have been some overlap, of course.

[Teasing the Korean]

Thanks Mike. I have the top two but not the others. Never heard the Proper box. 

[mikeweil]

Just read in the credits that the Proper Box dubbed the respective Norman Granz tracks from the Pablo CD. No sound improvement. 

[Teasing the Korean]

6 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

Just read in the credits that the Proper Box dubbed the respective Norman Granz tracks from the Pablo CD. No sound improvement. 

Thanks. I wonder if the Pablo double LP sounds any better than the CD.

[mikeweil]

2 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Thanks. I wonder if the Pablo double LP sounds any better than the CD.

No - I have both. 

The tracks on the two Verve compilations you have are tops, sound-wise. Wish there was a complete reissue like that.

[Teasing the Korean]

29 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

No - I have both. 

The tracks on the two Verve compilations you have are tops, sound-wise. Wish there was a complete reissue like that.

It is strange that Verve did not do a Machito set similar to the O'Farrill. I think I asked here years ago, and then forgot, but how did those tracks end up on Pablo to begin with? I know the Art Tatum Granz tracks ended up on Pablo also. Would Verve have been prevented from doing a comprehensive Machito set while the Pablo was in print?

[jazzcorner]

Have the following Items with Machito & O'Farrill

 

 

 

 

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, jazzcorner said:

Have the following Items with Machito & O'Farrill

Thanks! I also have both of these. The content of the bottom collection is similar to that of the "Original Mambo Kings" CD, minus the side of Chico O'Farrill tunes.

The top album is a reissue of O'Farrill's two Afro Cuban jazz suites, but this release omits one or two of the movements from the second suite.  IIRC, it omits the second section, which is one of my favorite parts. 

As you probably know, there was a weird trend in the US in the 60s and 70s, in which producers of reissue LPs would lop off a couple of tracks, so they could save a few pennies on publishing. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Teasing the Korean

[jazzcorner]

3 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Thanks! I also have both of these. The content of the bottom collection is similar to that of the "Original Mambo Kings" CD, minus the side of Chico O'Farrill tunes.

The top album is a reissue of O'Farrill's two Afro Cuban jazz suites, but this release omits one or two of the movements from the second suite.  IIRC, it omits the second section, which is one of my favorite parts. 

As you probably know, there was a weird trend in the US in the 60s and 70s, in which producers of reissue LPs would lop off a couple of tracks, so they could save a few pennies on publishing. 

Thank you for this interesting Info. I didnt know that the Verve VSP/VSPS reissue series were edited. Have never seen the originals.

 

 

[Teasing the Korean]

3 minutes ago, jazzcorner said:

Thank you for this interesting Info. I didnt know that the Verve VSP/VSPS reissue series were edited. Have never seen the originals.

You are welcome. The first "Afro Cuban Jazz Suite" is IIRC complete. The second suite is available in its entirety on the Verve 2-CD Chico O'Farrill collection titled "Cuban Blues."

[jazzcorner]

13 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

You are welcome. The first "Afro Cuban Jazz Suite" is IIRC complete. The second suite is available in its entirety on the Verve 2-CD Chico O'Farrill collection titled "Cuban Blues."

13 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

You are welcome. The first "Afro Cuban Jazz Suite" is IIRC complete. The second suite is available in its entirety on the Verve 2-CD Chico O'Farrill collection titled "Cuban Blues."

If I can find a good vinyl  for the latter mentioned I'll probably get it. Have to look up some japanese sources for vinyls. Haver spotted also a nice priced 2 CD set from Ireland (mint).

Thanks again for the Info.

W.

Edited May 27, 2020 by jazzcorner
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[kh1958]

 The Clef LP sounds good. Clefs are not too common in Dallas but generally are not premium priced for some reason.

Edited May 27, 2020 by kh1958

[Teasing the Korean]

So here is what happened with this LP: 

The Clef LP referenced by kh1958 had the full second suite on side 2 - six movements - along with two standalone O'Farrill tunes, "Havana Special" and "Fiesta Time."

So when the genius who compiled the budget Verve reissue had to trim two tracks, he could have trimmed the last two tunes and left the suite completely intact. 

Instead, he trimmed two movements from the suite. 

That's showbiz, folks!

[jazzcorner]

14 hours ago, kh1958 said:

 The Clef LP sounds good. Clefs are not too common in Dallas but generally are not premium priced for some reason.

This Item is offered at Discogs : lowest USD 49,95 and highest USD 100,00 plus postage.

Seems a bit  "premium" level  to me to make a buck.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by jazzcorner
text

[mikeweil]

That album's title shows the problem - or what later generations of Verve reissue producers might have seen as one. 

Machito ‎– Afro-Cuban Jazz - The Music Of Chico O'Farrill

Two leaders? Machito's band, O'Farrill composing and arranging. 

Mosaic could have conceived a box with the complete recordings of both - that would have been the best solution. Or Verve themselves. A look into the Verve discography would have revealed it. IIRC there even is a later session by O'Farrill with a studio orchestra thta was not on the double CD Cuban Blues.

Edited May 28, 2020 by mikeweil

[kh1958]

7 hours ago, jazzcorner said:

This Item is offered at Discogs : lowest USD 49,95 and highest USD 100,00 plus postage.

Seems a bit  "premium" level  to me to make a buck.

 

I don't buy off of Discogs. I meant the local (Dallas) record outlets that I frequent usually do not premium price the Clef label. 

[Teasing the Korean]

So, back to the Machito recordings. 

In checking the discographies, it looks like most if not all of the Machito tracks appearing on Verve's "Original Mambo Kings" collection originally appeared on Norgran or Clef.

But it appears that many or most of the tracks on the Pablo CD were produced by Norman Granz, but originally on Mercury. 

I realize that this is all part of Polygram or whatever conglomerate now, but I wonder if there was a reason that those Mercury tracks ended up on Pablo and not Verve. 

Incidentally several of those tracks on the Pablo CD appear on Verve's "More than Mambo" collection, and as Mike stated, they sound much better there. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Teasing the Korean

[jazzbo]

I think the answer is here, on Granz's wiki page:

In 1948 Granz signed an agreement with Mercury Records for the promotion and the distribution of the JATP recordings and other recordings. After the agreement expired in 1953 he issued the JATP recordings and other recordings on Clef Records (founded 1946) and Norgran Records (founded 1953).