John Coltrane's Creation

[Rabshakeh]

In an old thread here, there was a reference to an album by John Coltrane called "Creation" of which I have never heard, but which is described in the thread as being something that was passed around between those in the know in the early 80s, and which influenced Marsalis and co.

I've listened to a bit of the album online and it is quite something.  The sound quality is iffy but it has a burning intensity to the soloing. Plus, it is Coltrane with his classic quartet. 

Despite all that, it seems to have almost no presence online, other than a rather uninformative wikipedia page. 

What it this album, and why is it referenced so little? Is it a bootleg? 

 

[JSngry]

It was from a '65 Half Note radio broadcast, so it was not an officially sanctioned recording.

For some unknown reason the piece was not included in the official impulse! issuance of some of those recordings. Go figure. I think it's the highlight of all of them, but they don't ask me what I think.

The one(?) CD that I know of that had it is indeed a grey-market/bootleg and is long gone.:

That CD did see an earlier life as a bootleg LP:

 

[sidewinder]

Somewhere in my racks I have a copy of that Blue Parrot LP. Must dig out !

[Rabshakeh]

Thanks. I’m just a bit surprised that there’s Coltrane out there of this quality that hasn’t got a widespread release, or even much publicity.

[danasgoodstuff]

Got that on LP a long time ago, it is all that and more.

[JSngry]

8 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Thanks. I’m just a bit surprised that there’s Coltrane out there of this quality that hasn’t got a widespread release, or even much publicity.

You're not the only one.

Although to be honest, I think it's the most potentially upsetting Coltrane on record, so much sustained, unrelenting energy and invention...there are a lot of implications in both the music and in the decision to bring something like that to the market place....

[clifford_thornton]

Have this Blue Parrot LP as well, it's quite stunning.

[ghost of miles]

Had a cassette dub of this once--from a cassette tape that the Indianapolis Public Library had, if my memory's to be trusted.  (Not sure that it is.)  It was actually one of the first Coltrane recordings that I ever heard, and it threw me... I wasn't sure that I liked it, but kept listening to it and got hooked.  I share other posters' surprise that it hasn't been given an official release and wasn't included in the Half Note set.

[bertrand]

First I am hearing of this track! I wonder if I can find an MP3 somewhere. Jazzdisco.org claims it is the same song as Seraphic Light from Stellar Regions. True? 

[Late]

 

[Michael Weiss]

Heard this first around 1980. Creation is the only melody of Trane I ever heard in 7/8 - at least the opening theme. This is my cellphone's ringtone.

[Late]

I've been listening to this track on the way to work. (Better than caffeine!) Coltrane's solo and the 1963 Newport solo on "Impressions" with Roy Haynes are, for me, some of the very best Coltrane on record. The Half Note recordings are the kind of stuff where you wish (I wish) for a time machine — insist that Rudy record it professionally, pay him extra, pay the band extra, attend the entire gig, serve sweet potato pie and butterscotch Lifesavers at intermission, and ultimately usher into the future a series of well-recorded live Impulse! albums.

Coltrane was absolutely on fire for The Half Note gig. I haven't heard that many bootlegs from 1963-1967. Aside from the 1965 Paris shows, what others should I be looking for?

There really should be an official Coltrane Bootleg Series. It would sell.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Late

[EKE BBB]

FWIW, and according to Tom Lord discography, besides the Moon and Blue Parrot LPs, ‘Creation’ has also been issued on:

- an Audio Fidelity LP (AFE 3-9), as ‘Untitled Original’

- a Chiaroscuro LP (CR 2023)

- a Canadian Black Label Cd (BLCD 8005)

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by EKE BBB

[mjazzg]

6 hours ago, EKE BBB said:

FWIW, and according to Tom Lord discography, besides the Moon and Blue Parrot LPs, ‘Creation’ has also been issued on:

- an Audio Fidelity LP (AFE 3-9), as ‘Untitled Original’

- a Chiaroscuro LP (CR 2023)

- a Canadian Black Label Cd (BLCD 8005)

 

Thanks for posting this. I've just grabbed a copy of 'Reflections'. Be interesting to hear it after all the comments 

[Late]

2 hours ago, mjazzg said:

I've just grabbed a copy of 'Reflections'. Be interesting to hear it after all the comments.

I can't get enough of Coltrane's solo on "Creation" these days. I've been playing it over and over. There's a lot to take in. During McCoy's solo, when he really lays into the block chords, Elvin plays a syncopated figure I've never heard from him elsewhere. It feels like 3 against 4, but suspended into a kind of 7/8 feel? (This would make sense given the opening melody.) It doesn't last long before Elvin settles back into his 4/4 rolling thunder. The whole band is incredibly focused on this track. For all its supposed freedom, this is disciplined music.

I love Coltrane's "cell" figures in his solo. Reminiscent of Sun Ship.

[bertrand]

I don't think it is Seraphic Light. Is it a different song from Stellar Regions?

[mjazzg]

On 14/11/2020 at 10:12 AM, EKE BBB said:

FWIW, and according to Tom Lord discography, besides the Moon and Blue Parrot LPs, ‘Creation’ has also been issued on:

- an Audio Fidelity LP (AFE 3-9), as ‘Untitled Original’

- a Chiaroscuro LP (CR 2023)

- a Canadian Black Label Cd (BLCD 8005)

 

The version of 'Creation' on the 'Reflections' LP,  listed as 'Untitled Original' fades out after about 8 minutes

[Late]

2 hours ago, mjazzg said:

The version of 'Creation' on the 'Reflections' LP,  listed as 'Untitled Original' fades out after about 8 minutes

Nooooooooo!

The digital file I have is 23:45 long.

[mjazzg]

58 minutes ago, Late said:

Nooooooooo!

The digital file I have is 23:45 long.

Yep, definitely fades.  Looks like the full version might only be on the Blue Parrott LP.

Great version of 'Chim Chim....' on 'Reflections' so I can live with the LP happily  (it was cheap) whilst I track down the full 'Creation'

[JSngry]

Look for it on the Moon CD as well as the vinyl. Double the odds!

[mjazzg]

I am

[jcam_44]

I got the Blue Parrot LP cheap sealed on vinyl.com (I wasn’t sure how legit such a generic named site would be but it delivered, and it was the most well packaged LP I’ve ever received). Try them. It was $10-$12 if I recall correctly. 

[Late]

Bump ... for Coltrane's upcoming birthday party. What other tracks from the Half Note recordings didn't appear on the official release?

[Late]

I love this track so much that I'm still listening to it in the car. Why on earth it hasn't seen any sort of official issue is beyond me. I think it may be Coltrane's greatest solo.

[Dub Modal]

On 11/25/2020 at 8:13 PM, jcam_44 said:

vinyl.com

Looks like this website is now songtradr. com