COVID-19 III: No Politics For Thee

[sgcim]

On 3/29/2023 at 4:03 PM, Aggie87 said:

I'm sure you realize, but the vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting Covid.  What it does do is help minimize the effects if you do get Covid.  

My wife and I have both had 5 shots (I think 5 anyway), and she still got Covid just before the holidays.  Her symptoms were mild.  I'm pretty sure I had Covid in March 2020 (not provable because there weren't tests immediately available at the time), right when the pandemic started  and before the vaccines were available, and my symptoms then were substantially worse. 

No matter what that You Tube User/ Nurse with a PHD (so he calls himself a "Doctor") John Campbell says, masks are the only things that offer some protection from infection.

[Guy Berger]

On 3/29/2023 at 10:25 AM, sonnymax said:

Please consider getting and taking Paxlovid ASAP. Everyone I know who has done so is glad they did.

I had COVID for the first time back in December.  My symptoms were unpleasant, but not the end of the world.  Like a mild flu or an extremely bad cold.  I was tired, slightly feverish, cough and congestion.  Was able to manage symptoms with regular strength advil.  My wife didn't get it.  My kids did; my older one (5) had symptoms like mine for 3 days and then rebounded, my younger one (2) was asymptomatic the whole time.

I did take paxlovid and it was a miracle drug while I was taking it (almost entirely eliminated the symptoms) but I was unfortunate to get the "paxlovid rebound", which happens to 20-25% of the population (my symptoms returned after I took it).  I don't know if I would do it again unless I was higher risk.  (But if I was, I would definitely take it, even with risk of a rebound.) I had only a minor metallic taste side effect.

My vaccines were fully up to date - I had the bivalent booster back in the fall as did my wife.  My kids both had the under 5 vaccine.

On 3/29/2023 at 1:03 PM, Aggie87 said:

I'm sure you realize, but the vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting Covid.  What it does do is help minimize the effects if you do get Covid.  

Vaccines don't 100% prevent you from getting COVID, but they almost certainly reduce your chances of getting COVID in any given circumstance.  Especially if you're up to date on boosters.

Recent prior infection, especially with omicron variants, also has this effect.

32 minutes ago, sgcim said:

No matter what that You Tube User/ Nurse with a PHD (so he calls himself a "Doctor") John Campbell says, masks are the only things that offer some protection from infection.

This just isn't true.  Vaccines and prior infection provide some, albeit imperfect, protection from infection.  Unclear whether it's more or less than a good mask, but it's much better to be "up-to-date vaccinated but not masked" than "masked but not up-to-date vaccinated".  (And a lot of masks people wear are not particularly effective - it's really silly to see people wearing surgical masks or cloth ones.  You need a well-fitted N95.)

Edited March 31, 2023 by Guy Berger

[Patrick]

I took Paxlovid when I caught Covid in late October. Fortunately no metallic mania. Unfortunately, rebound case of Covid a week later. Good luck rooster. Definitely appreciate your dining strategy. May need to try some berbere in a chili batch

[Kevin Bresnahan]

18 hours ago, JSngry said:

It would be a liquid asset (no pun intended). You could sell that shit to friends and neighbors!

 

My neighbors don't drink the stuff I buy. My years working at a wine bar elevated my wine tastes dramatically. I don't even know if my neighbors would know the names of some of the wineries I buy from. I'm sure my impending retirement will change that. Good thing those Black Box wines are decent.

[Rooster_Ties]

We both feel a fair bit better today -- not quite half better, but close.

And we got a bunch of Altoids, mint gums, and spicy hot candy (Hot Tamales) in our order from the store last night — so that metallic taste is now pretty well in check.

[Pim]

It's interesting to see how everybody's dealing with COVID around the world nowadays. Here in the Netherlands COVID now has a regular flu status I would say. I am not at all familiar with any medication to be honest. Nobody does that here and I know plenty people who have had COVID in the last couple of months.  Almost everyone in my direct environment has got it now at least once, sometimes twice or even more. But nowadays you could hardly tell as no one tests anymore. We got a pretty bad regular flu wave here in december that got quite some people sick (also at my work). I'm pretty sure that flu wave made more victims than COVID last winter... My collegue who hasn't called in sick in the past 13 years felt awful when he got it. He stayed at home for two weeks which is for him exceptional.

My wife got COVID once, I still haven't got it, at least that I know of. But I am pretty sure I got it at the very beginning of the pandemic when testing was unavaible (I came back from a skiing holiday near the Italian border in march 2020 and both my wife and I got a severe cough, fever, headaches and I remember I was extremely tired). We visited my parents, not aware of the disease (it was only just in the news back then) and my parents had the same symptons.

I stopped taking the vaccin after the second booster. I don't know any people that did. I've got the impression that most of the American board members here are more serious with the vaccins? There aren't any testing area's as well here anymore (that I know of) and no one I know tests any more. There aren't regulations and you never see anyone with a facial mask here anymore. 

Anyway: all best wishes to Rooster Ties and his wife. Hope you already had the worst and up to a steady recover.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

21 hours ago, Pim said:

It's interesting to see how everybody's dealing with COVID around the world nowadays. Here in the Netherlands COVID now has a regular flu status I would say. I am not at all familiar with any medication to be honest. Nobody does that here and I know plenty people who have had COVID in the last couple of months.  Almost everyone in my direct environment has got it now at least once, sometimes twice or even more. But nowadays you could hardly tell as no one tests anymore. We got a pretty bad regular flu wave here in december that got quite some people sick (also at my work). I'm pretty sure that flu wave made more victims than COVID last winter... My collegue who hasn't called in sick in the past 13 years felt awful when he got it. He stayed at home for two weeks which is for him exceptional.

This is also happening here in the US, but if you look harder at the situation, you'll find that it is the result of a well-orchestrated de-escalation plan by our countries' governments who want nothing more than to get our economies "back to normal".

Since the beginning of 2023, over 36,000 US citizens have died from COVID - over 3,000 per week. But this number is likely underestimating the actual total because there are several states that no longer report their numbers. It is estimated that 18,000 people died from the flu in 2022. More people died from COVID in the first 6 weeks of 2023 than the number of people who died from the flu during all of 2022.

COVID is not a "regular flu" at all and no one should treat it that way.

Yes, the numbers continue to tread down. Yes, more people are surviving and a lot of them get a mild case. But people are still dying. Don't fall for the trap that says it's over or that it's not that bad. It's still a big problem. Hopefully you'll never find out how much of a problem it can be. My mom is 85 and, fingers crossed, she still hasn't gotten COVID. I don't think she'd survive it.

[jazzbo]

I hope she doesn't get it Kevin, I really do. My father got it and though he survived it, while recuperating he managed to fall while supported by two aides and break his ankle, and after fourteen months bed-ridden he passed. . . officially his cause of death was labeled "failure to thrive after COVID."

As you say it is still a very serious thing and thank goodness for vaccinations and medications developed at an amazing rate that continue to save many.

Edited April 3, 2023 by jazzbo

[Pim]

2 hours ago, bresna said:

This is also happening here in the US, but if you look harder at the situation, you'll find that it is the result of a well-orchestrated de-escalation plan by our countries' governments who want nothing more than to get our economies "back to normal".

Since the beginning of 2023, over 36,000 US citizens have died from COVID - over 3,000 per week. But this number is likely underestimating the actual total because there are several states that no longer report their numbers. It is estimated that 18,000 people died from the flu in 2022. More people died from COVID in the first 6 weeks of 2023 than the number of people who died from the flu during all of 2022.

COVID is not a "regular flu" at all and no one should treat it that way.

Yes, the numbers continue to tread down. Yes, more people are surviving and a lot of them get a mild case. But people are still dying. Don't fall for the trap that says it's over or that it's not that bad. It's still a big problem. Hopefully you'll never find out how much of a problem it can be. My mom is 85 and, fingers crossed, she still hasn't gotten COVID. I don't think she'd survive it.

So the conspiracy thinking has now been passed on to the other camp? Weird. I have trust that our government did the right thing when the pandemic was at its worst (sometimes thinking they might overreacted even) and I do trust them now. The same scientists who were very serious about COVID back then now do confirm that the newest mutation is pretty much comparable to the flu and that’s what statistics confirm here. That doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous anymore. Hell, every year 8 thousand people in the Netherlands die of the flu! So yes it’s still dangerous, especially to certain groups, but I don’t see recent numbers as a justification to make strict policies and I am glad most governments including the Dutch don’t. 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

9 minutes ago, Pim said:

So the conspiracy thinking has now been passed on to the other camp? Weird. I have trust that our government did the right thing when the pandemic was at its worst (sometimes thinking they might overreacted even) and I do trust them now. The same scientists who were very serious about COVID back then now do confirm that the newest mutation is pretty much comparable to the flu and that’s what statistics confirm here. That doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous anymore. Hell, every year 8 thousand people in the Netherlands die of the flu! So yes it’s still dangerous, especially to certain groups, but I don’t see recent numbers as a justification to make strict policies and I am glad most governments including the Dutch don’t. 

I don't know why you would trust your government when they stopped reporting deaths due to COVID: https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/sterfte

Note where it says, "Not all patients are tested and there is no longer an obligation to report deaths from corona. As a result, the information from CBS provides a more complete picture than mortality from corona reported to the GGD."

This is the same approach being taken by several states here in the US, with some states like Florida going so far as to criminalize the reporting of these numbers. They arrested a researcher for doing this last year.

They want you to think it's just another flu. They don't want you to worry. They don't want you to start asking how many people have died from Covid and they certainly don't want it listed on any of their official websites or else people can then ask why they stopped caring. Really, they don't care about us at all. All they care about is money & the economy. What are a few dead folk if it means the economic numbers look good? Money talks.

[Dan Gould]

19 minutes ago, bresna said:

I don't know why you would trust your government when they stopped reporting deaths due to COVID: https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/sterfte

Note where it says, "Not all patients are tested and there is no longer an obligation to report deaths from corona. As a result, the information from CBS provides a more complete picture than mortality from corona reported to the GGD."

This is the same approach being taken by several states here in the US, with some states like Florida going so far as to criminalize the reporting of these numbers. They arrested a researcher for doing this last year.

They want you to think it's just another flu. They don't want you to worry. They don't want you to start asking how many people have died from Covid and they certainly don't want it listed on any of their official websites or else people can then ask why they stopped caring. Really, they don't care about us at all. All they care about is money & the economy. What are a few dead folk if it means the economic numbers look good? Money talks.

Please identify this supposed arrest in Florida.

You are aware (or maybe not) that several state figures show more than 50% of hospitalizations are "with COVID" not "because of COVID"?

And that there was NO surge in deaths this winter? Certainly nothing comparable to the prior two years ...

[Kevin Bresnahan]

10 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Please identify this supposed arrest in Florida.

You are aware (or maybe not) that several state figures show more than 50% of hospitalizations are "with COVID" not "because of COVID"?

And that there was NO surge in deaths this winter? Certainly nothing comparable to the prior two years ...

Sorry, two years ago: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/01/18/957914495/data-scientist-rebekah-jones-facing-arrest-turns-herself-in-to-florida-authoriti

As for no surges in deaths this winter... did you click the link I posted above? https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_weeklydeaths_select_00 There was a "surge", but I suppose you could say it was more of a bump. But then again, you have to acknowledge that with many states refusing to report Covid deaths, these numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt.

I edited this to take out "some states may not have reported any deaths for a year" because it's more likely "some counties".

Edited April 3, 2023 by bresna

[Dan Gould]

19 minutes ago, bresna said:

Sorry, two years ago: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/01/18/957914495/data-scientist-rebekah-jones-facing-arrest-turns-herself-in-to-florida-authoriti

As for no surges in deaths this winter... did you click the link I posted above? https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_weeklydeaths_select_00 There was a "surge", but I suppose you could say it was more of a bump. But then again, you have to acknowledge that with many states refusing to report Covid deaths, these numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt.

I edited this to take out "some states may not have reported any deaths for a year" because it's more likely "some counties".

I am going to ignore Rebekah Jones because it will unfortunately veer into politics. But Jones as a "hero" let alone some brave "victim" is beyond laughable.

As for your chart proving some still-high death rates, what are you looking at?? I barely perceive a "bump" and if you look at it from the end of the prior high to the current numbers, the best fit looks like a decline and if not a decline, it's flat.

 

 

[Pim]

1 hour ago, bresna said:

I don't know why you would trust your government when they stopped reporting deaths due to COVID: https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/sterfte

Note where it says, "Not all patients are tested and there is no longer an obligation to report deaths from corona. As a result, the information from CBS provides a more complete picture than mortality from corona reported to the GGD."

This is the same approach being taken by several states here in the US, with some states like Florida going so far as to criminalize the reporting of these numbers. They arrested a researcher for doing this last year.

They want you to think it's just another flu. They don't want you to worry. They don't want you to start asking how many people have died from Covid and they certainly don't want it listed on any of their official websites or else people can then ask why they stopped caring. Really, they don't care about us at all. All they care about is money & the economy. What are a few dead folk if it means the economic numbers look good? Money talks.

Well sorry Bresna you’ve lost me there. Your statement here sounds like just another conspiracy theory but now from the other camp…

If what you are saying is true there should be two statistics that would prove your statement even if COVID deaths aren’t counted anymore. The first one is the excess mortality and the second are hospilizations and the intensive care occupation. There was no excess mortality in January and February compared to the average. This would not be possible if so many people were dying from COVID like you claim. The second are the hospilizations:

https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/ziekenhuizen-en-zorg

609  COVIDon regular care department and 36 on the intensive care units  have COVID.  To compare: during the worst days of COVID it was more than 2000 beds alone for COVID on regulate care units and almost a 1000 on the intensive care. And then at last there is my own experience: I don’t know anyone who has died or even been hospitalized since June last year. I know people working at hospitals that confirm that there are hardly any COVID victims anymore for months. 
 

These very low numbers are also without any restrictions.  All in all these statistics prove that the current dominant COVID mutation is comparable to a regular flu which also could be very dangerous to vulnerable people. Also these statistics aren’t a base for taking strict measures or setting restrictions. 
 

Now if you’re now gonna tell me now that all statistics above are made up by our government to satisfy businesses and they take economy above national health care then I am really worried about you. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Pim

[Kevin Bresnahan]

PIM - Your government has stopped reporting Covid deaths. Therefore, everything at this point is guess work. You are correct that deaths are down - that's likely the result of the vaccines doing their job.

However, your country's actual positivity rate looks to be very high still. It's just not being reported as high because no one is really testing any more. But check your wastewater numbers: https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/rioolwater  They are still high, which would indicate that quite a few people are still getting Covid.

And I am not saying that the US & The Netherlands governments are making up statistics. I am saying that they have put blinders on. If you don't measure or report something, it's gone. If you don't report Covid deaths, then no one is dying "from Covid".

FWIW, I think that the excess deaths method of predicting actual Covid deaths is not working as well as it did when Covid started over 3 years ago. The baseline or the "expected" number of deaths is off. What number are they using now? The number from 2019? There's no reason to expect that number to be today's "expected" number of deaths.

[Spontooneous]

My significant other, her mother, a cousin of mine and a dear friend were all killed by COVID. I support what Bresna is saying. The political pressure to undercount deaths in USA is real.

[jazzbo]

Really sorry to read this Spon.

[Pim]

BRESNA - first of all I never stated anywhere that the amount of infections are low. It’s quite the contrary. When people were still testing, the amount of infections per day was sometimes 20 times higher during Omikron than during the other variants. But it didn’t show a significant rise in hospilizations: quite the contrary, they went down very fast. The whole fact that there are so many infections but not that many hospilizations proves the whole point that this current mutation isn’t as dangerous as those other were. And I see it everyday at my workplace where say 2 months ago when people were still testing sometimes half of a class that I was teaching had COVID. Or seven colleagues. The numbers were dazzling. 

It’s a pity you only use my statistics so selective and don’t say anything about the hospilizations. They are a very good indicator on how serious we should take the current COVID variant and if measures should be taken. But they are very, very low. When there are 35 people on an intensive care unit on a population of 18 million, you can’t state this is a serious health hazard and it would be ridiculous to take strict measures. And let’s not forget this measures, though they were very necessary at some points, also had a very negative impact on society as a whole. I still see that everyday at the high school where I work. 
 

And last but not least: there’s nothing regular bout a flu. A flu could be very dangerous to quite some people as well. Like I stated: 7000 died in the Netherlands last year from it. And that’s the official number so there must be more than that. Just like that flu, COVID will remain danger to certain groups for ever unfortunately.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

53 minutes ago, Pim said:

First of all I never stated anywhere that the amount of infections are low. It’s quite the contrary. When people were still testing, the amount of infections per day was sometimes 20 times higher during Omikron than during the other variants. But it didn’t show a significant rise in hospilizations: quite the contrary, they went down very fast. The whole fact that there are so many infections but not that many hospilizations proves the whole point that this current mutation isn’t as dangerous as those other were. And I see it everyday at my workplace where say 2 months ago when people were still testing sometimes half of a class that I was teaching had COVID. Or seven colleagues. The numbers were dazzling. 

It’s a pity you only use my statistics so selective and don’t say anything about the hospilizations. They are a very good indicator on how serious we should take the current COVID variant and if measures should be taken.

We're getting our signals crossed here. Maybe it's the language barrier...

Go to this page: https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/ziekenhuizen-en-zorg  and go down to where it says "Admissions over time". You'll see that a lot of people in your country are still being admitted to the hospital, well after the Omicron variant hit the populace. The reason ICU admissions has gone down is because more & more people are vaccinated, which greatly reduces the risk of going into ICU and/or dying. Clearly, the rate of hospitalization in The Netherlands isn't much different from what it was almost 2 years ago (May of 2021), so you can't say that Covid isn't as bad today as it has been in the past just based on ICU beds.

Look, I get that less people are dying. I get that less people are testing. I get that less people are being admitted to the ICU. What I don't get is that "Covid is just like the flu". It's not. It's far more deadly than the flu. Yes, people die from the flu. But way more continue to die from Covid than the flu. In the US at least, it's not even close. Covid is far more deadly in the US than the flu.

[Dmitry]

Am I the Organissimo record holder? I've gotten over three documented Covid-19 infections, spread over the period of 24 months. 

 

[jazzbo]

My youngest brother has had three infections in the same time period, his wife and daughters twice. . .they're fully vaccinated and he and his wife boosted so they have not been really bad versions of the illness. My other brother and his wife have had COVID once, early in the pandemic. My wife and I luckily have not had COVID.

[Justin V]

The three of us of all have avoided Covid so far, although my wife works in healthcare and had to wear a mask until only recently.  I am shocked that my daughter didn't bring it home from preschool. 

In the fall, what I first suspected to be Covid or the flu ended up being a nasty infection that perforated my eardrum.  I don't think my hearing has been the same since.  As I'm fully vaccinated, I would've preferred Covid.

[Dmitry]

I just spoke to someone who hasn't taken a mask off in public until today. Conversation with me was the first one he's had mask-free in three years.