COVID-19 III: No Politics For Thee

[ejp626]

1 hour ago, sonnymax said:

'A boomerang effect': Hank Aaron's death is falsely linked to Covid vaccine

 

My favorite bit of dumb-assery from the article is the celebrity who won't catch Covid because they sleep with the temperature up to 90...

Cases starting to come down pretty steeply in Ontario.  Hope this trend continues even with the UK-variant breaching our defenses.

[JSngry]

I'm actually very open-minded about possibilities and interpretations - but only from those who display a real base/core competency in objective truths. Otherwise, you're just like one of these finger-wagglers who can't play shit past the way your undisciplined fingers can waggle...I mean sure, it feels good to you, masturbation usually does, and I know it means something to you, but what the fuck am I supposed to do with it? You've told me about you, now tell me what comes next? You again? Better have something more than before or else your one-trick pony just got put down out back, rest in peace L'il Rider.

Having a Point Of View and having an honest to god valid, actionable POINT got nothing in common except the word "point".

 

[Dan Gould]

How the hell could anyone sleep with 90 degree temps?

I'm ignoring the idea that it would prevent Covid infection because that's just plain nuts.

But 90 degrees? When we lost power for a good while due to Hurricane Irma, it reached about 87 degrees inside and didn't get to 80 during the nights.  Thank god after a couple of days we had a functional generator to at least run stand-up fans.  But a steady 90 degrees?

[JSngry]

I've been able to fall asleep - eventually - at around 90, AC went out, windows opened, etc. Plus, you know, I'm old enough to have grown up in times and places where heat was common and home AC wasn't, etc. But STILL - you gotta be acclimated to that shit, and acclimation if you're not born to it...the AC will get fixed before the acclimation occurs....

First World Problem, as they say.

[jazzbo]

I too can sleep if it's that hot. . . my first decade in Texas, the 'eighties, I was too poor to live with central air and heat and worked it out. The final solution for me was to sleep on a water bed and have the heater turned off. Works!

[Dan Gould]

I've certainly understood that acclimation will happen over time.  I just couldn't imagine living above ground in Florida without conditioned air. 

[Dmitry]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

 I just couldn't imagine living above ground in Florida

Here, fixed it for you.

[Dan Gould]

19 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Here, fixed it for you.

I was actually thinking about that kind of abode and how I know how much cooler they are as I was typing my post.  But I ain't building one and I don't think they are easy to find in this state either.

[ejp626]

3 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

I was actually thinking about that kind of abode and how I know how much cooler they are as I was typing my post.  But I ain't building one and I don't think they are easy to find in this state either.

I think your water table is too high, at least in the more humid parts of the state...

[Dan Gould]

8 hours ago, ejp626 said:

I think your water table is too high, at least in the more humid parts of the state...

Didn't think about that ... all of Florida is subject to sinkhole formation but I am in Sinkhole Central more or less (remember the guy who disappeared along with his house and his body was never recovered?  Plant City).  So there ain't none of those types of homes being built anywhere nearby. Maybe the panhandle?

[ghost of miles]

 From the NY Times’ “The Morning,” Good vaccine news. 

[jlhoots]

My wife & I received our 1st vaccine shots (Moderna) on Saturday. All went well.

[Big Beat Steve]

50 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

 From the NY Times’ “The Morning,” Good vaccine news. 

That's all very well and one would really want to believe it all at face value. Because we all prefer to get out of this sooner rather than later.

But I find the below statements a bit doubtful:

"...Others are left with the mistaken impression that only the two vaccines with the highest official effectiveness rates — from Moderna and Pfizer — are worth getting.
In truth, so long as the data holds up, any of the five vaccines can save your life."

Note: Yes - they CAN save everyone's life. Though everyone getting vacinated will be more concerned with "WILL it save my life?" So this "WILL" boils down to the likelihood of protection. And therefore the effectiveness rate (to minimize the residual risk because no vaccine will provide you with 100% guaranteed protection). So what about the "highest official effectiveness rates" that state some 95% for Biontech/Pfizer and Moderna vs 62% for AZ? Is this 62% effectiveness rate light years away from a rate of 50% that basically would mean that this vaccine is just as likely to protect you from an infection as it is lkely that it won't? In short, anybody's guess - as so much in life? In the key question of what level of two-way protection (of not getting the virus and - therefore - not transmitting the virus) can be achived this DOES have repercussions.
Isn't it therefore understandable that there are people out there who will shun the "not so good" AZ vaccine and try to go for the other two?
At any rate, I find it outrageous that politicians over here, for example (as it is being discussed now), say that the AZ vaccine should be administered primarily to those in the healthcare profession (of ALL protessions ... ). For logistics and "approved use" considerations, it seems ... I'd understand any healthcare worker who will consider this a case of adding insult (2nd grade vaccine) to injury (heavy workload under most difficult working conditions with increased risks).

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Big Beat Steve

[Dan Gould]

24 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

That's all very well and one would really want to believe it all at face value. Because we all prefer to get out of this sooner rather than later.

But I find the below statements a bit doubtful:

"...Others are left with the mistaken impression that only the two vaccines with the highest official effectiveness rates — from Moderna and Pfizer — are worth getting.
In truth, so long as the data holds up, any of the five vaccines can save your life."

Note: Yes - they CAN save everyone's life. Though everyone getting vacinated will be more concerned with "WILL it save my life?" So this "WILL" boils down to the likelihood of protection. And therefore the effectiveness rate (to minimize the residual risk because no vaccine will provide you with 100% guaranteed protection). So what about the "highest official effectiveness rates" that state some 95% for Biontech/Pfizer and Moderna vs 62% for AZ? Is this 62% effectiveness rate light years away from a rate of 50% that basically would mean that this vaccine is just as likely to protect you from an infection as it is lkely that it won't? In short, anybody's guess - as so much in life? In the key question of what level of two-way protection (of not getting the virus and - therefore - not transmitting the virus) can be achived this DOES have repercussions.
Isn't it therefore understandable that there are people out there who will shun the "not so good" AZ vaccine and try to go for the other two?
 

 

From the NYT daily "The Morning" email:

The data

By those measures, all five of the vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and Johnson & Johnson — look extremely good. Of the roughly 75,000 people who have received one of the five in a research trial, not a single person has died from Covid, and only a few people appear to have been hospitalized. None have remained hospitalized 28 days after receiving a shot.

To put that in perspective, it helps to think about what Covid has done so far to a representative group of 75,000 American adults: It has killed roughly 150 of them and sent several hundred more to the hospital. The vaccines reduce those numbers to zero and nearly zero, based on the research trials.

Zero isn’t even the most relevant benchmark. A typical U.S. flu season kills between five and 15 out of every 75,000 adults and hospitalizes more than 100 of them.

I assume you would agree that any vaccine that transforms Covid into something much milder than a typical flu deserves to be called effective. But that is not the scientific definition. When you read that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was 66 percent effective or that the Novavax vaccine was 89 percent effective, those numbers are referring to the prevention of all illness. They count mild symptoms as a failure.

“In terms of the severe outcomes, which is what we really care about, the news is fantastic,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

[JSngry]

Yeah, I can deal with "mild symptoms"...hell I haven't "felt good" since one July afternoon in 1979. I don't mind not feeling good.

Death and/or hospitalization and respiratory gummup, though....not wanting any of that, thank you.

Make mine vaccine, please!

[Big Beat Steve]

@Dan Gould:
I did notice something like that. Something similar was in the linked article. But the basic problem remains that there IS a difference in effectiveness.
Would YOU be willing to go ahead and say "Yes I am happy to take the vaccine with the lowest official effectiveness rate because I believe in the principle of "any protection at all"?
The problem is that these differences in effectiveness rates do constitue a real risk of a race of "who will get which one". This is cause for concern as conflicts are programmed.
And I still believe groups such as healthcare workers should preferentially be administred the highest-protection rate vaccine as a natural matter of course. If any differentiation is to be made at all (which would be most unfortunate), then THEY do matter in overcoming this entire pandemic problem more than quite a few other groups in the population(s) at large. Because you simply cannot afford to let the healthcare system to be put under further increased pressure due to excessive infection (or even quarantine) cases in this particular group (which unfortunately DOES happen over and over again wherever you look, and don't tell me they all were sloppy in following the precautionary measures).
OTOH maybe I should not be too suprrised with the way politicians have been acting here. Not very long ago professional umbrella organizations in the healthcare sector here have told the healthcare workers they were to continue working and coming to their workplace (of course observing all protection measures) EVEN WHEN tested positive as long they did not show any symptoms. Ha - politicians and organizations scared stiff that too many healthcare workers might have to be quarantined and everything going down the drain ... And the healthcare workers having to take the brunt ... Does this inspire confidence?

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Big Beat Steve

[mjazzg]

9 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Would YOU be willing to go ahead and say "Yes I am happy to take the vaccine with the lowest official effectiveness rate because I believe in the principle of "any protection at all"?

Yes I would be prepared to do that. If my vaccination at a lower efficacy helps create a situation where overall infection rates are reduced then I'm all for that.  Lower community infection rates will mean less pressure on health services, less deaths and crucially fewer variants (as it appears that the virus mutates in areas with high community infection). Put another way, I'll be a lot happier with 62% protection than with the 0% I have at the moment.

And yes, give the healthcare workers the strongest protection possible - we owe them that at the very least.

[Dan Gould]

14 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

@Dan Gould:
I did notice something like that. Something similar was in the linked article. But the basic problem remains that there IS a difference in effectiveness.
Would YOU be willing to go ahead and say "Yes I am happy to take the vaccine with the lowest official effectiveness rate because I believe in the principle of "any protection at all"?
The problem is that these differences in effectiveness rates do constitue a real risk of a race of "who will get which one". This is cause for concern as conflicts are programmed.
 

 

Steve, it depends on how you measure effectiveness.

I am willing to measure it by whether or not you are likely to die or be severely impacted. With any of these I'd be unlikely to die or be hospitalized, so yes I'd take any of the options today if someone were ready to jab my arm. 

Why is it hard to understand that a "failure" is measured by any one in a study getting infected, but that the vaccines are still effective enough that something like a modest flu is far and away the most likely outcome if you do get infected?

(Not asking you directly Steve.)

[JSngry]

J&J is a single shot vaccine, which is a big plus.

At some point, yeah, we can quibble. right now, I'm like, let me get the best I can get, when I can get, where I can get it. None of these options on the table now really suck, and COVID is not an opt-in disease, if you know what I mean. We can quibble later.

The science is getting there, it is not all the way there yet.

Instant gratification is not available except when looking backward, something that This Modern World seems to have forgotten.

 

[GA Russell]

On 1/25/2021 at 1:36 AM, GA Russell said:

"Twenty-three people died in Norway within days of receiving their first dose of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, with 13 of those deaths — all nursing home patients — apparently related to the side effects of the shots, health officials said."

https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/

"German Nursing Home Whistleblower: ‘Elderly Dying After COVID Vaccine'"

https://21stcenturywire.com/2021/02/14/germany-whistleblower-in-nursing-home-says-elderly-dying-after-covid-vaccine/

[Dan Gould]

Saw a story in the Times about  securing legit high-filtration masks and learning about likely fakes on Amazon, ended up at this site:

https://bonafidemasks.com/

You can get the legit surgical-style masks or the KN95 which doesn't fit as securely but still very good - and only $10 for 10, with free domestic shipping. I went for the latter. 

 

[Brad]

6 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Saw a story in the Times about  securing legit high-filtration masks and learning about likely fakes on Amazon, ended up at this site:

https://bonafidemasks.com/

You can get the legit surgical-style masks or the KN95 which doesn't fit as securely but still very good - and only $10 for 10, with free domestic shipping. I went for the latter. 

 

We’ve been using KN95s for a long time. 

[sonnymax]

10 hours ago, GA Russell said:

"German Nursing Home Whistleblower: ‘Elderly Dying After COVID Vaccine'"

https://21stcenturywire.com/2021/02/14/germany-whistleblower-in-nursing-home-says-elderly-dying-after-covid-vaccine/

21st Century Wire is a conspiracy and conjecture site run by Patrick Henningsen. Henningsen has ties to both Infowars and Alex Jones, also known for fake news and broad conspiracies. They also seem to have ties to, or at least to be pro-Russian in much of their content.  Specifically Russian Today (RT) the state-run Russian news outlet. (Media Bias Fact Check)

GA, you appear to be fond of quoting questionable sources in your arguments. Of course, you're entitled to consume whatever "news" you like. However, promoting this kind of misinformation on this subject could have a real negative impact on members of our community and the people they love. Quoting the NY POSt article that you posted last month without the opposing views it received is disingenuous. For the record, that article included the following statements: 

Common reactions to the vaccine, including fever and nausea, “may have contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients,” Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency.

“We are not alarmed by this,” Steinar Madsen, medical director with the agency, told Norwegian broadcaster NRK. “It is quite clear that these vaccines have very little risk, with a small exception for the frailest patients.”

If I'm not mistaken, moderators removed posts in a previous COVID-19 thread that contained misinformation from unreliable sources. Again, you're entitled to believe whatever you want, but I implore you to stop spreading conservative propaganda that can harm others.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

One of my young (~25 years old) direct reports caught COVID last week. Well, he caught it about 2 and half weeks ago but didn't test positive or show any symptoms until last last week (~10 days after he was exposed). He is in rough shape. On top of the severe flu-like symptoms, he is having trouble breathing due to what appears to be an infection on his tonsils. One doctor thinks it's an infection but antibiotics haven't done a thing for him. Now another doctor is thinking it's COVID related. If it doesn't get better, he might have to get hospitalized soon.

Crazy story he told me... when he was told he needed antibiotics, he headed to the pharmacy to get them. At first, they refused to allow him in to pick up his prescription, then they tried to send him home and get someone else to go to the pharmacy to pick it. When he told them everyone in his apartment had COVID, they finally brought it out to his car. He called a few days ago to get some "behind the counter" pseudoephedrine delivered to his home. They refused because that medication needs a signature and they wouldn't let him sign anything. How the hell are you supposed to get better if they won't bring you the medication you need?

[Dub Modal]

5 minutes ago, bresna said:

One of my young (~25 years old) direct reports caught COVID last week. Well, he caught it about 2 and half weeks ago but didn't test positive or show any symptoms until last last week (~10 days after he was exposed). He is in rough shape. On top of the severe flu-like symptoms, he is having trouble breathing due to what appears to be an infection on his tonsils. One doctor thinks it's an infection but antibiotics haven't done a thing for him. Now another doctor is thinking it's COVID related. If it doesn't get better, he might have to get hospitalized soon.

Crazy story he told me... when he was told he needed antibiotics, he headed to the pharmacy to get them. At first, they refused to allow him in to pick up his prescription, then they tried to send him home and get someone else to go to the pharmacy to pick it. When he told them everyone in his apartment had COVID, they finally brought it out to his car. He called a few days ago to get some "behind the counter" pseudoephedrine delivered to his home. They refused because that medication needs a signature and they wouldn't let him sign anything. How the hell are you supposed to get better if they won't bring you the medication you need?

Awful. The only recommendation I have is that if you, or any of his contacts have the time, please go and get the BTC sudafed for him (store brand if they have it, cheaper & the same thing) and just leave it at the door. Also, if he doesn't have a pulse oximeter, I do recommend picking that up too (probably $30 - $35). It got in my tonsils badly, which made breathing and functioning in general difficult. Sudafed and advil/tylenol were absolutely crucial to alleviating those symptoms. My doc gave me an antibiotic too, which was mostly precautionary based on the color of mucus I had. No idea if it did anything, but I took it just as well. The pulse oximeter can help let one know when you might need to go to the hospital, because if you are consistently below 95% or something like that you need to advise the doc immediately and possibly go on to the hospital. The other thing I did, and this is personal preference, but I basically drank hot water with honey and lemon as much as possible. And then 1 oz of whisky before bed. The whisky worked better than the cough syrup (Delsym is what I tried). I couldn't taste it of course, but it's more medicinal at that point rather than sipping for enjoyment. Best of luck to him. Shit is no joke.